2024 NBA Draft Thread

[JPB]

i know its not a great draft, but i'd be hard-pressed to use a top 3 pick on a guy im earmarking to be a full time backup. if im taking him there, its because i believe he can play alongside vic as well as serve as a backup.

so, if Vic starts playing 32-33 mpg, Sarr plays about 15-16 minutes as the backup and also another 10 alongside Vic, at least as a rookie

That was the idea, yeah.

And I might be wrong, but I'm not sure you'll find more than a role player in this year's draft. And that's what teams should focus on. Anyone looking for det future star might end up with a bust.

[TD 21]

Buzelis on Risacher: "I want to see him one-on-one. He just doesn't want to do that with me. His agent will not do that with me, and I know he won't. It's a business decision. My advantage is that I have everything over him."

In Spurs logic, maybe the Lithuanian name absolves him the same way Samanic's Croatian name and background did his at ude and behavior, but this could hurt his standing with them.

I would say he's behind the curve there, though. Guys with less physical gifts than Victor but who grew up playing center have a lot of experience with these types of actions. That Wemby struggles to set good screens despite being a center at the professional level for years is all the evidence one needs for his inexperience.

None of those guys can play with other centers, which is something Wemby might develop to being able to do. I would definitely put Victor further along in that curve toward being a wing than the examples you listed, though how far remains to be seen. I have no doubt that Wemby can be a center long term. I just think he might develop into a combo-big where playing with a center for long stretches is what he does.



Collins shouldn't be evidence of much, because he's been awful most of the time. Even before we knew that, I suggested he looked more like a single-big player anyway. Bassey and Wemby played well together, so I don't think they have a reason to scratch that archetype off the list yet. Getting a better Bassey would be one of my goals, as well as swapping Charles and Dom out for other centers to keep the experiment going.

Maybe so, but not being adept at some of these things (which can all be learned and in the case of screen setting, some of it comes down to willingness to repeatedly get hit) at 20 doesn't make him less of a center.

Some of them can, but their teams know they're better off individually and collectively not doing so (with the exception of Porzingis, who plays some with Horford, the rare true combo big). Wembanyama could definitely become a combo big too, it'd just be pointless unless it's with a fellow one like Reid or if it is a rim runner, then they better be surrounded by 3 shooters.

Bassey is (was?) better than you give him credit for and Barlow potentially is too. I wouldn't bother with a rim runner, unless it's something like dumping Collins for Capela as part of a Young trade.

[BatManu20]

Matas got that dawg in him tbh.

[mo7888]

I have a slightly different approach angle to the discussion of whether Wemby is a center, or a power forward, or a small forward, etc...

Rather than debating if Wemby is a center in the traditionalway we think about centers... or a PF in the traditional way we think about PFs... I think the reality is that Wemby is the "Center (of the team)" and will redefine the way lineups are built around him. Whatever historical constructs of lineups have existed in the past need not apply. All that matters is what optimizes what you get from a lineup that features Wemby (which is different than optimizing the output you get from Wemby). In an era of position-less basketball, Wemby is the cheat code: the position-less player.

Positions are irrelevant, archetypes are what matter when dreaming up optimal lineup constructions around Wemby. Most of the time, Wemby will likely most closely resemble what we think of as a center, but we'll continue to see what we have all year - glimpses of him playing other roles. That versatility can create a degree of unpredictability that can cripple other teams.

The above is a reason I'm not interested in Saar. I think Saar lacks that versatility and freezes Wemby out of certain opportunities while they share the floor with one another, because those roles are the only ones Saar can thrive in. We need players surrounding Wemby that don't crowd Wemby out, instead we need players who fill up the space that Wemby is incapable of occupying (lead ball handler, sniper, etc).

Well done....

[mo7888]

Buzelis on Risacher: "I want to see him one-on-one. He just doesn't want to do that with me. His agent will not do that with me, and I know he won't. It's a business decision. My advantage is that I have everything over him."

In Spurs logic, maybe the Lithuanian name absolves him the same way Samanic's Croatian name and background did his at ude and behavior, but this could hurt his standing with them.




Maybe so, but not being adept at some of these things (which can all be learned and in the case of screen setting, some of it comes down to willingness to repeatedly get hit) at 20 doesn't make him less of a center.

Some of them can, but their teams know they're better off individually and collectively not doing so (with the exception of Porzingis, who plays some with Horford, the rare true combo big). Wembanyama could definitely become a combo big too, it'd just be pointless unless it's with a fellow one like Reid or if it is a rim runner, then they better be surrounded by 3 shooters.

Bassey is (was?) better than you give him credit for and Barlow potentially is too. I wouldn't bother with a rim runner, unless it's something like dumping Collins for Capela as part of a Young trade.

Absolutely love the Buzelis quote... now if he follows that up against whoever challenges him, I'll be even more impressed..

[scott]

Matas got that dawg in him tbh.

I love the cold, dark, sociopathic eyes that Matas has. Like a tiger shark, or an assassin. Risecher looks like a deer in the headlights.

This is my basketball analysis for the day

[Chinook]

Maybe so, but not being adept at some of these things (which can all be learned and in the case of screen setting, some of it comes down to willingness to repeatedly get hit) at 20 doesn't make him less of a center.

I don't care about whether a player "is a center" or "is a real center" or anything related to that. The question is what kinds of players fix next to Wemby, and the label assigned to him doesn't affect that. Right now, the team struggles with having good screens set from them and has very little rim pressure. That's why adding those skills would be beneficial. Whether Wemby has the "C" designation on the lineups when that occurs doesn't matter to me at all, especially during a transitional period where things don't have to be optimized for a contender.

Some of them can, but their teams know they're better off individually and collectively not doing so (with the exception of Porzingis, who plays some with Horford, the rare true combo big). Wembanyama could definitely become a combo big too, it'd just be pointless unless it's with a fellow one like Reid or if it is a rim runner, then they better be surrounded by 3 shooters.

This is missing the point though. Those aren't a static collection of players in which Wemby definitely fits. They're points on a continuum and might well be all to one side of it while Wemby is further to the other side. Giannis 100 percent could play center physically -- which is why he often plays the position in certain lineups throughout the years -- but has played with Lopez or Portis almost exclusively this season. So is Milwaukee running a two-big lineup? If that answer is no, then it makes you start to question where the line is. Wemby's still developing, but it wouldn't be hard to imagine Victor having a more accomplished floor game than Giannis does when all is said and done.

[TD 21]

I don't care about whether a player "is a center" or "is a real center" or anything related to that. The question is what kinds of players fix next to Wemby, and the label assigned to him doesn't affect that. Right now, the team struggles with having good screens set from them and has very little rim pressure. That's why adding those skills would be beneficial. Whether Wemby has the "C" designation on the lineups when that occurs doesn't matter to me at all, especially during a transitional period where things don't have to be optimized for a contender.



This is missing the point though. Those aren't a static collection of players in which Wemby definitely fits. They're points on a continuum and might well be all to one side of it while Wemby is further to the other side. Giannis 100 percent could play center physically -- which is why he often plays the position in certain lineups throughout the years -- but has played with Lopez or Portis almost exclusively this season. So is Milwaukee running a two-big lineup? If that answer is no, then it makes you start to question where the line is. Wemby's still developing, but it wouldn't be hard to imagine Victor having a more accomplished floor game than Giannis does when all is said and done.

This isn't about some label or designation, it's about the fact that most of the players who fit next to him aren't centers, which is why he should be playing center.

Spacing is more important than rim pressure (most good offenses, especially those that are playoffs proof, have the former but not necessarily the latter, unlike the inverse) and has the added benefit of making it easier to get to the rim.

Antetokounmpo is the hardest player to define positionally, as a non shooting big wing in the body of a center. He's a nominal power forward by default though, since he can't credibly play center (he's more roving helper than anchor), which is why the Bucks defense traditionally falls off a cliff without Lopez.

[spurraider21]

Matas got that dawg in him tbh.

sounds cool at first, but knowing this will never happen, he could get away with saying something like this

like the "hold me back" guy who doesnt really have any intention of fighting

[baseline bum]

sounds cool at first, but knowing this will never happen, he could get away with saying something like this

like the "hold me back" guy who doesnt really have any intention of fighting

[BatManu20]

sounds cool at first, but knowing this will never happen, he could get away with saying something like this

like the "hold me back" guy who doesnt really have any intention of fighting

Maybe. He was pretty compe ive vs Cooper Flagg in their 1-on-1’s though. He’s 2 years older than Flagg of course, which definitely matters at that age. But he held his own against Flagg, who’s the better player. Think he’s just a compe ive kid tbh.

[Bruno]

Buzelis is 30/115 (26.1%) from 3 this season. When you look at his boxscores, he has been bad at shooting 3 the whole season. These low numbers aren't the result of a slow start or a shooting slump at some point of the season. That's worrisome and he will have to convince teams he is a good shooter during workouts if he wants to be a top5 pick.

[objective]

Anyone else holding off watching too much before the lottery?

Or is everyone all in and researching heavy already?

Me, I can't bring myself to do that much without knowing if they have the Toronto pick and what the order is

[CGD]

^ I think many of us have processed the initial wave of talking head draft takes available on the key prospects/names, and are basically going round and round until the combine. Maybe some have watched tape (I haven’t).

For example, many here are passionate about Dillingham but there really isn’t any serious new info out there to tell us whether he’ll be the second coming of Christ or TyTy Washington 2.0. The combine will help give a better picture. Until then it feels like we all have our pets

[Dejounte]

sounds cool at first, but knowing this will never happen, he could get away with saying something like this

like the "hold me back" guy who doesnt really have any intention of fighting

Him going against Cooper Flagg dispels this immediately. He had real intentions.

[CGD]

Matas got that dawg in him tbh.

I’m here for it!

But seriously, can he shoot? And/or is Risacher’s shooting fact or fiction?

[Dejounte]

Mindset is everything tbh.

I argue players with that edge have a nonzero chance of being a star versus players with all the talent in the world but have no compe ive fire.

For all the flak Sochan gets for lacking talent, the Spurs probably banked on his correct approach to the game and prayed it would carry over to realized potential. Unfortunately, it’s not anywhere close yet because the talent gap might be too strong.

but the Spurs need to continue ensuring any player they put in consideration checks that box. No more timid, no heart players like Lonnie. Future Spurs players need to have that edge, at least when the goal is to find another star in the draft.

[Dejounte]

I’ve been to a few games in person and it’s so much more apparent that there are players on this team who play hot potato on offense because they don’t want to take the lead in scoring. We end up with a lot of games where Sochan is the leading scorer because of his mentality. In order for the Spurs to advance forward, they need players who want “it”. Buzelis wanting to take the last shot in the Rising Stars game shows his drive, aside from the quote today. It’s a good sign.

[mo7888]

Mindset is everything tbh.

I argue players with that edge have a nonzero chance of being a star versus players with all the talent in the world but have no compe ive fire.

For all the flak Sochan gets for lacking talent, the Spurs probably banked on his correct approach to the game and prayed it would carry over to realized potential. Unfortunately, it’s not anywhere close yet because the talent gap might be too strong.

but the Spurs need to continue ensuring any player they put in consideration checks that box. No more timid, no heart players like Lonnie. Future Spurs players need to have that edge, at least when the goal is to find another star in the draft.

Agreed 100%... I also think, in a poor draft like this one, it makes even more sense to put an emphasis on drafting a player with that edge.

[scott]

Mindset is everything tbh.

I argue players with that edge have a nonzero chance of being a star versus players with all the talent in the world but have no compe ive fire.

For all the flak Sochan gets for lacking talent, the Spurs probably banked on his correct approach to the game and prayed it would carry over to realized potential. Unfortunately, it’s not anywhere close yet because the talent gap might be too strong.

but the Spurs need to continue ensuring any player they put in consideration checks that box. No more timid, no heart players like Lonnie. Future Spurs players need to have that edge, at least when the goal is to find another star in the draft.

Man, I might be completely misreading Sochan because I see less of a guy who "wants it" and more of a guy who says " it, I'll take the shot, IDGAF". You guys are way smarter about basketball than I am, so I'll give it an 85% chance you are right and I am wrong.

Devin, on the other hand, seems to me a guy who does "want it" in big moments, he's just been completely unable to deliver in the moment.

[Dejounte]

Man, I might be completely misreading Sochan because I see less of a guy who "wants it" and more of a guy who says " it, I'll take the shot, IDGAF". You guys are way smarter about basketball than I am, so I'll give it an 85% chance you are right and I am wrong.

Devin, on the other hand, seems to me a guy who does "want it" in big moments, he's just been completely unable to deliver in the moment.

Hmm define the difference between those two (wants it vs it) because right now I can’t tell the difference.

I agree to some degree that Devin is the same way, but to me the way he acts is someone who’s been voted to the top position and because the expectations now are that he has that responsibility, it’s not as natural or organic as someone who has that silent, keyed in stare that Sochan has from time to time showing his intensity. It’s hard to explain. Primo had that, too. It’s just unfortunate that these guys need more talent… or no one wants to say it… so i’ll whisper it… (they probably need/ needed more time).

speaking of the model prospect, add this “edge” attribute to your “what kind of player are the Spurs likely to draft” list The Truth #6 because I do think there’s a trend there.

[scott]

Dejounte to me the difference between the two is subtle, but significant. The "wants it" guy is the guy driven by winning above all else, and he believes he is the one to deliver the win. When he doesn't, he beats himself up and obsesses over it until he next opportunity. The " it" guy, on the other hand is more of the sense of "someone has to try to get this win, I guess it might as well be me", but if he falls short, no big deal... I did my best. To the " it" guy, it's a very laissez-faire approach ("it will be what it will be").

I'll once again disclaim that this is just my reading of the situation, and I am likely very wrong.

[exstatic]

I’m here for it!

But seriously, can he shoot? And/or is Risacher’s shooting fact or fiction?

Risacher’s shooting is way more of a fact than Buzelis’s, who allegedly made a 3 pointer early in his HS career, or something.

[Dejounte]

Dejounte to me the difference between the two is subtle, but significant. The "wants it" guy is the guy driven by winning above all else, and he believes he is the one to deliver the win. When he doesn't, he beats himself up and obsesses over it until he next opportunity. The " it" guy, on the other hand is more of the sense of "someone has to try to get this win, I guess it might as well be me", but if he falls short, no big deal... I did my best. To the " it" guy, it's a very laissez-faire approach ("it will be what it will be").

I'll once again disclaim that this is just my reading of the situation, and I am likely very wrong.

Ah I see. I don’t claim I have the correct reading either, just my own personal observation. But yeah, my view is that Vassell’s been tasked with taking the last shot so he feels like in the back of his mind when the clock is going down he’s gonna take it because it’s his responsibility, and another part of it is he thinks he’s the most capable person to do it too… these are two things that, IMO, hinder him because basketball IQ or basketball sense then becomes third place behind these egocentric ideas in his head and causes him to make losing plays like finding the hardest shot possible in a DeMar fashion vs making the smart play.

With Sochan I actually think basketball IQ comes first with his “wants it” mentality because he recognizes his shortcomings and tries to feed guys who are currently more talented than him on offense before he thinks about taking over.

Again, all of these things I say may be controversial (especially me mentioning Primo, the Forbidden one… why did I open myself up to scrutiny by mentioning THAT guy) but these are all my personal opinions.

[mo7888]

Risacher’s shooting is way more of a fact than Buzelis’s, who allegedly made a 3 pointer early in his HS career, or something.

It was layer in his HS career and it was 40% for tbe season if i remember correctly. That said, Risacher is the better shooter from deep.