Serious Question: Has Vassell ever come up in the clutch?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Is anyone truly clutch on a team that’s this bad?

[LeBowen]

Vassell's salary of $29.3M next year will be around 21% of the $141M salary cap, if that changes your view as to his worth.

You're right, obviously.
My bad, I wrote 30% instead of 20% for some reason.

I'm still sticking with my opiinon if we're talking this version of Vassell.
He either needs to become a better playmaker or a better defender to be worth that deal.
Or just explode as a scorer.

But maybe I'm wrong, I was just never a fan of guards who just score and don't do much else unless they're microwave scorers off the bench.
Obviously, exclude MVP level players, I'm talking about your average guards.

Is anyone truly clutch on a team that’s this bad?

Good point. For me it's about who takes the responsibility.
Obviously, some of it is on Pop's decision making, but since he's supposed to be the second best player on the team, he's got to be more assertive.

[rankingtear]

The clutch thing does not exist. He just needs to clean up his dribble pull up from three. I think it is up 5% from last season so it is trending up.

[Spurminator]

Vassell's ceiling just seems to be Tim Hardaway Jr IMO. That's not a #2 on a contending team but might be able to be your #3 sometimes, provided you have other players who can be #3's on his off nights. THJ has never struck me as the guy you want taking the last shots either.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/sa...ole-miami-heat

bag

[Tyronn Lue]

Most players don't do "well" in the clutch. Those times someone does it becomes bigger than the stats will bear out vs the conversation around it. I don't know that Devin has had that many opportunities to make clutch shots, but in a game like last night, all those baskets were clutch.

[Pauleta14]

I’d say the short answer is, no. The reason being, Vassell isn’t the team’s #1 player. It’s like wondering if Reaves is clutch, when he’s playing with LeBron late in a Fakers game. It would be usual to focus on Reaves.

Of course anything is fair in a basketball discussion. No problem, as far as that goes. But is this the correct focus?

As far as him clanking a 28-footer in OT, the question it raises for me, is the team’s coaching clutch? Why does that situation even arise?




With all the problems the team has, it would be absurd to actively shop Vassell. He’s a 20 ppg shooting guard, within half a point, and he has some respectable defensive ability (when the coaches are doing their job.) Replacing Vassell has got to be way way down on the priority list.

2 points

1- « Devin will have the ball on his hand for us at the end of games » , récent quote from Pop…

I agree with you on the principle but Pop seems to see Devin with a Manu role at the end of games. He just dorsmt have to handled or craftiness to have this role imo

2- I don’t think anyone wants to ACTIVELY shop Vassell as much as being opened to use him in a big trade, because of his coming salary and attractiveness for teams.
It’d be a matter of opportunity more than will to « get rid of him »

[Proxy]

huh? He came up in the clutch just against the knicks?? and the jazz... how does ST define clutch... it's like a cowboys fan ting on romo for throwing an interception when he had a O-line and had to make something happen in the 4th

[Slippy]

2 points

1- « Devin will have the ball on his hand for us at the end of games » , récent quote from Pop…

I agree with you on the principle but Pop seems to see Devin with a Manu role at the end of games. He just dorsmt have to handled or craftiness to have this role imo

2- I don’t think anyone wants to ACTIVELY shop Vassell as much as being opened to use him in a big trade, because of his coming salary and attractiveness for teams.
It’d be a matter of opportunity more than will to « get rid of him »

My point . Just maybe pop see's something in practice we all dont .

The improvement I've seen in Devins game this season. I'm pretty confident he will grow as a player when it comes to late game heroics. A better PG and spurs being in position to actually win majority of their games will help bigtime.

Relying on stats to prove a player isn't clutch on a consistently losing team can easily mislead

[exstatic]

2 points

1- « Devin will have the ball on his hand for us at the end of games » , récent quote from Pop…

I agree with you on the principle but Pop seems to see Devin with a Manu role at the end of games. He just dorsmt have to handled or craftiness to have this role imo

2- I don’t think anyone wants to ACTIVELY shop Vassell as much as being opened to use him in a big trade, because of his coming salary and attractiveness for teams.
It’d be a matter of opportunity more than will to « get rid of him »

While that may be your POV, I don’t think it’s even remotely true.

[Pauleta14]

My point . Just maybe pop see's something in practice we all dont .

The improvement I've seen in Devins game this season. I'm pretty confident he will grow as a player when it comes to late game heroics. A better PG and spurs being in position to actually win majority of their games will help bigtime.

Relying on stats to prove a player isn't clutch on a consistently losing team can easily mislead

Let’s make it easier, do you see Vassell becoming an Allstar?

If the answer is no, he just can’t be part of a Big 2 or 3. As simple as that

What could Pop have seen in him that would suddenly appears after 4-5 years? Genuine question…

Vassell can either be an amazing elite role player or an underwhelming “main” player. That’s the crazy thing about him. He should be admiring for his shooting but all we see is his inabilities to do stuff … he’s not supposed to be good at!!


If Vassell has the ball in last minutes by default (bc horrible roster) I get it this season. If Pop sees him having this role long term I genuinely lost …

[Pauleta14]

While that may be your POV, I don’t think it’s even remotely true.

At best a couple angry STers but I haven’t seen much honestly. Most have the same position than mine, it’s all about opportunities AND it makes sense (contrary to some Uber protective who think he’s HIM).

[Dejounte]

Contrary to popular belief, certain qualities about players (such as if they have all-star potential or not) is not always clear in their first few years. It’s ok to say “we don’t know yet” on a player. History shows that plenty of times there are players who don’t show any indication they’ll be all-stars in their first few years. Tony Parker and Manu’s (to a lesser extent) legacies were carried due to the fact they won championships on the coattails of Tim Duncan. In basketball circles, these two were scarcely mentioned in top 5’s or top 10’s of anything in that era. Only when they were forced to did they start having to include them in anything.

Neither of these guys were statistically impressive early in their careers. It wasn’t until the rise of advanced statistics in basketball that they became more appreciative of what they did— most notably Ginobili for his per minute metrics.

For people to say “I knew they would be good early on because of Tony’s speed and Manu’s winning ways in Euroleague yadda, yadda, yadda” is total bull .

More recent examples of top players who were late bloomers:
-Jimmy Butler - was not blowing anyone away in his first three years
-Jalen Brunson - this guy is the PERFECT example of someone who didn’t show anything close to what he’s showing now
-Kyle Lowry - it wasnt until he was 26 before he came a multiple All Star
-Murray - no one believed he would be this good until the very end
-Pascal Siakam - took him four years
-Vanfleet - same as above

[Pauleta14]

Contrary to popular belief, certain qualities about players (such as if they have all-star potential or not) is not always clear in their first few years. It’s ok to say “we don’t know yet” on a player. History shows that plenty of times there are players who don’t show any indication they’ll be all-stars in their first few years. Tony Parker and Manu’s (to a lesser extent) legacies were carried due to the fact they won championships on the coattails of Tim Duncan. In basketball circles, these two were scarcely mentioned in top 5’s or top 10’s of anything in that era. Only when they were forced to did they start having to include them in anything.

Neither of these guys were statistically impressive early in their careers. It wasn’t until the rise of advanced statistics in basketball that they became more appreciative of what they did— most notably Ginobili for his per minute metrics.

For people to say “I knew they would be good early on because of Tony’s speed and Manu’s winning ways in Euroleague yadda, yadda, yadda” is total bull .

More recent examples of top players who were late bloomers:
-Jimmy Butler - was not blowing anyone away in his first three years
-Jalen Brunson - this guy is the PERFECT example of someone who didn’t show anything close to what he’s showing now
-Kyle Lowry - it wasnt until he was 26 before he came a multiple All Star
-Murray - no one believed he would be this good until the very end
-Pascal Siakam - took him four years
-Vanfleet - same as above

not sure I get the relevance of ur list of players tbh they’re eastern conference players lmao even Barnes was an Allstar this season and he’s a lot more complete than Vassell.

the question is simple, after 4 years of watching him develop do you see Vassell reaching Allstar level (forget being selected, too much popular vs deserving)?

I truly don’t

I’d gladly be wrong so please explain me if you think he can become one, why and what am I missing?

[ambchang]

The same logic would have had the bulls trading away Scottie Pippen in the late 80s, mchale in early 80s and kobe in the early 00s. How many clutch shots did unibrow make in his first four years with the pels?

[The Truth #6]

I think the issue people have is his salary. It was done in a post Wemby lottery manic episode, basically. But as far as how he's playing, I think the high salary puts him in a role where he is supposed to be taking big shots, handling the ball a lot. I think Devin understandably is playing like someone with a big contract. They have to get a #2 to make him a #3 in the pecking order to make it balance out. So to speak.

[Dejounte]

not sure I get the relevance of ur list of players tbh they’re eastern conference players lmao even Barnes was an Allstar this season and he’s a lot more complete than Vassell.

the question is simple, after 4 years of watching him develop do you see Vassell reaching Allstar level (forget being selected, too much popular vs deserving)?

I truly don’t

I’d gladly be wrong so please explain me if you think he can become one, why and what am I missing?

The question is simple and the answer is simple: I don’t know if Vassell will reach all star status based on what I’ve seen because I don’t think my opinion or the opinion of many others matter because everybody gets it wrong. It’s like I said, what players show in their first years is sometimes not indicative of who they will become. It’s OK to say we don’t know and to wait. That’s the entire point. It’s a simple answer but it’s throws an error in people’s brains sometimes like, “DOES NOT COMPUTE”.

When a player regresses or stagnates, that’s usually the only sign that a player won’t reach higher levels. Period.

[Pauleta14]

The question is simple and the answer is simple: I don’t know if Vassell will reach all star status based on what I’ve seen because I don’t think my opinion or the opinion of many others matter because everybody gets it wrong. It’s like I said, what players show in their first years is sometimes not indicative of who they will become. It’s OK to say we don’t know and to wait. That’s the entire point. It’s a simple answer but it’s throws an error in people’s brains sometimes like, “DOES NOT COMPUTE”.

When a player regresses or stagnates, that’s usually the only sign that a player won’t reach higher levels. Period.

What kind of answer is that??

of course none of us can see the future, but stop me if I’m wrong the idea of a forum is to exchange pov and perspectives, solutions etc about the Spurs no?

You say we can’t know the first years …. but Vassell has been there for FOUR years! It’s not enough for you to have an idea of a player’s abilities and potential?

If he was playing in the East, why not with injuries and if his team does really well but Vassell has ZERO chances to ever be an Allstar in the West! None

everything in Vassell’s games says (potential elite) rôle player. It’s not hating it’s just observations.

And I’m far from being the toughest critic about him

[exstatic]

What kind of answer is that??

of course none of us can see the future, but stop me if I’m wrong the idea of a forum is to exchange pov and perspectives, solutions etc about the Spurs no?

You say we can’t know the first years …. but Vassell has been there for FOUR years! It’s not enough for you to have an idea of a player’s abilities and potential?

If he was playing in the East, why not with injuries and if his team does really well but Vassell has ZERO chances to ever be an Allstar in the West! None

everything in Vassell’s games says (potential elite) rôle player. It’s not hating it’s just observations.

And I’m far from being the toughest critic about him

SGA didn’t make an ASG in his first four years.

[MannyIsGod]

Its impossible to say taht Devin can't be an all star right now. Its unlikely, tbh, but it's definitely not an insignificant chance. The same people saying Devin cant' be an all star are likely the same people that didn't believe Dejounte Could be an all star.

[MannyIsGod]

Vassell's ceiling just seems to be Tim Hardaway Jr IMO. That's not a #2 on a contending team but might be able to be your #3 sometimes, provided you have other players who can be #3's on his off nights. THJ has never struck me as the guy you want taking the last shots either.

I strongly disagree with this. Vassal in his current year is already better than any season Hardaway has had and already has a more efficient game than him much less in his 4th year in the league. Even with no improvement he's already step above him, IMO. There's no way I'm completely writing off Vassal taking another step. Even modest improvement makes him substantially better.

[Sugus]

Lol, wow, it's ing funny seeing Spurs fans saying like "clutchness doesn't exist". Having seen Manu's entire career and you truly can't believe some players can and do rise up to the moment more than others?

Manu Ginóbili is and forever will be a legend, an Olympic Gold medalist and a Champion - because of his clutch performanceS. He had his fair share of mistakes as any human does, but he was undeniably clutch. James Harden is, similarly and statistically, unclutch, as well.

No wonder the legendary play that took place when they crossed paths; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjUgDgcAIXY . There's entire compilations of Manu clutch shots, FFS.

[Pauleta14]

SGA didn’t make an ASG in his first four years.

Mate I’m not trying to win an argument for the sake of it so please stop acting stupid, you know what I mean.

SGA had allstar potential and that’s why OKC traded for him to make him the center piece of their project, Vassell isn’t, not because he sucks, he’s an elite shooter, but in today’s NBA (probably ever actually ^^) you can’t be an allstar guard without the ability to create separation with 1st step or great handles. That’s the main requirement to have the ball in the last seconds of a game.

Vassell has shown he can be an elite role player and it’s not an insult to say so, you don’t expect after +4 years a player to change RADICALLY the player he is and incorporate stuff that are worked on from a very young age or are natural.

We’ve seen many times Vassell struggle when pressed in the last possession and ending either taking a bad shot or bad pass because he couldn’t create a separation.

[Pauleta14]

Its impossible to say taht Devin can't be an all star right now. Its unlikely, tbh, but it's definitely not an insignificant chance. The same people saying Devin cant' be an all star are likely the same people that didn't believe Dejounte Could be an all star.

Murray always had the potential at least physically, iircc he had off court issues or doubts that made him slip to the 28Th

Anyways, I’d love to be wrong, we’ll see

[rankingtear]

You're right, obviously.
My bad, I wrote 30% instead of 20% for some reason.

I'm still sticking with my opiinon if we're talking this version of Vassell.
He either needs to become a better playmaker or a better defender to be worth that deal.
Or just explode as a scorer.

But maybe I'm wrong, I was just never a fan of guards who just score and don't do much else unless they're microwave scorers off the bench.
Obviously, exclude MVP level players, I'm talking about your average guards.



Good point. For me it's about who takes the responsibility.
Obviously, some of it is on Pop's decision making, but since he's supposed to be the second best player on the team, he's got to be more assertive.

It is like 16% of the cap on average for 5 years. Rookie max is 25%. When Wemby extension kicks in, it is just 13% of the projected cap equivalent to 18 million this year. That is the 5th highest salary on BOS payroll. It is one of the best value contract right now, the cap landscape would change after 2025 and it runs through that.