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  1. #1251
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    It's not even about clutch plays for me, it's about him completely disappearing in a lot of games.
    I'd rather have him chuck us out of the game than leave that duty to Keldon and Jeremy.

    I also just realized Grayson Allen is a free agent this summer.
    Most efficent 3pt shooter in the league this season on high volume. And a good defender. And doesn't need the ball.

    I'd gladly get some assets back for Devin and get Allen who'd fit way better and earn less.

    And with these recent developments, I'm more and more in line of dumping this entire roster.

    My subjective, ideal scenario as of now:

    1. Naz Reid for either one good first rounder or two weaker ones. Maybe one solid first and a swap. Anyhow, needs to be the priority. Wolves can also get anyone they want on the roster if they'd like.
    2. Trae for Keldon+Collins and Hawks picks.
    3. Grayson Allen as a free agent. Not many teams have cap space and not many teams need a shooting guard. Offer him 70/4 or 80/5.
    4. Get rid of Devin's contract while teams see him as the only good player except Wemby on our roster. Find a 3-D wing coming our way. Maybe Brooklyn would take Devin in a deal for Bridges. I don't think Pelicans would take him in a deal for Jones/Murphy. Okoro is another, cheaper target I'd like.

    Cap is at $141M the next season.
    Not guaranteeing Devonte means Spurs have 34M in cap space.
    Devin, Keldon and Collins are due 64M, trading them would leave us with 98M in cap space.

    Trae, Reid and Bridges will make 80M combined.
    18M left for Grayson Allen.

    If someone wuold take Jeremy and/or Branham, that's another 5.5+3.2M in cap space.

    Building around Wemby isn't rocket science, just get him an elite playmaker who's a triple threat and has gravity of his own, add 3-D players on the perimeter and we're in the playoffs right away...if Pop gets over himself, that is.
    Trae-Grayson-SF-Naz-Wemby is an elite lineup if we can get Bridges or Herb for the SF position.

    Jones as the backup PG. Barlow/Bassey as backup bigs, with Reid also being to take some minutes there.
    SF we draft this year, Cissoko and Champagnie as backup perimeter players. Also Jeremy if noone takes him.
    Sounds like you just built a team for Trae Young not Wemby.

  2. #1252
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    Sounds like you just built a team for Trae Young not Wemby.
    Please do enligthen me, what are player archetypes that would fit Wemby better.
    I'm sick of you people who just on ideas and never provide context.

    What we're seeing this season is obvious. Wemby is already getting swarmed whenever he's near the paint and we have no spacing to punish it.
    We also have zero good enough playmakers on the team. Including Tre. That's why most our possessions are labored and look straight out of 1975.

    I'd also like to pair Wemby alongside next all-time great point forward, but unfortuantely none of those that fit the timeline seem to be available.
    Same goes for point guards, we went over it a dozen times.

    The only good all-star point guards that could be available this summer are Trae or Garland.
    If we're talking team-oriented point guards, it's just Tyus Jones who'd be a stop gap.
    Or Derrick/Jrue if Celtics fail again because they can't extend both and they won't let them walk for free.

    I'd want Trae only if he fully accepts that he's there for Wemby, not the other way around. And if he also accepts that he'll never get an extension for more than 45ish per year.
    He can forget the supermax. 40 a year is enough of a bag. If just wants the money and treadmill for the rest of his career, then he can stay in Atlanta.

    I'd also have nothing against giving Celtics their pick back for Derrick.
    I just don't want Tre or a rookie starting the next season because it would be a disaster. If we draft a point guard, then get a good veteran who's an actual NBA starter and trade Tre.
    Rookie can start off the bench.
    There are no point guards in this draft that will be anywhere close to ready to start the next season. Or the season after.

    But regardless of how point guards situation develops, 3-D perimeter players are a must because we're tragic in both those departments.
    Naz Reid and Herb would be perfect fits. Same goes for Allen as a free agent, best one we can get on the market. I don't want Tobias Harris, he's just such a flaccid player.

  3. #1253
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    It's not even about clutch plays for me, it's about him completely disappearing in a lot of games.
    I'd rather have him chuck us out of the game than leave that duty to Keldon and Jeremy.

    I also just realized Grayson Allen is a free agent this summer.
    Most efficent 3pt shooter in the league this season on high volume. And a good defender. And doesn't need the ball.

    I'd gladly get some assets back for Devin and get Allen who'd fit way better and earn less.

    And with these recent developments, I'm more and more in line of dumping this entire roster.

    My subjective, ideal scenario as of now:

    1. Naz Reid for either one good first rounder or two weaker ones. Maybe one solid first and a swap. Anyhow, needs to be the priority. Wolves can also get anyone they want on the roster if they'd like.
    2. Trae for Keldon+Collins and Hawks picks.
    3. Grayson Allen as a free agent. Not many teams have cap space and not many teams need a shooting guard. Offer him 70/4 or 80/5.
    4. Get rid of Devin's contract while teams see him as the only good player except Wemby on our roster. Find a 3-D wing coming our way. Maybe Brooklyn would take Devin in a deal for Bridges. I don't think Pelicans would take him in a deal for Jones/Murphy. Okoro is another, cheaper target I'd like.

    Cap is at $141M the next season.
    Not guaranteeing Devonte means Spurs have 34M in cap space.
    Devin, Keldon and Collins are due 64M, trading them would leave us with 98M in cap space.

    Trae, Reid and Bridges will make 80M combined.
    18M left for Grayson Allen.

    If someone wuold take Jeremy and/or Branham, that's another 5.5+3.2M in cap space.

    Building around Wemby isn't rocket science, just get him an elite playmaker who's a triple threat and has gravity of his own, add 3-D players on the perimeter and we're in the playoffs right away...if Pop gets over himself, that is.
    Trae-Grayson-SF-Naz-Wemby is an elite lineup if we can get Bridges or Herb for the SF position.

    Jones as the backup PG. Barlow/Bassey as backup bigs, with Reid also being to take some minutes there.
    SF we draft this year, Cissoko and Champagnie as backup perimeter players. Also Jeremy if noone takes him.
    I like your proposal for the starting five, the bench would be really weak but we have to start somewhere.

  4. #1254
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    I like your proposal for the starting five, the bench would be really weak but we have to start somewhere.
    We'd still have all our picks, except maybe one and it's not like we can go from worst team in the conference to top contender in one summer.
    We'd need Cissoko or rookie forward to develop into a rotation player.

    Stagger minutes and don't play the bench together as a unit.

  5. #1255
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  6. #1256
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    Decent video, longer than it needs to be for fluff's sake, but if you could go back to Anthony Davis' rookie season I'd think the Pelicans fans would have a similar hope and that never really panned out. Davis is no Wembanyama, but he was the best prospect in a while. You look at what the Pelicans have now and they are actually a better team, only still not a legit le contender. Head East on I-10 for a couple hundred miles and you'll find Ime's team that's out performing expectations even without Sengun. A lot of these results are based on game planning, match ups and internal expectations. Ime is the Spurs team after losing in the Finals in 2013, pissed off with something to prove. Pop is the Spurs team after a championship season, not as hungry as before and losing in the 1st round but giving "effort". Pop is full of pla udes for bad players and rests on his laurels so much that a path forward isn't even slightly apparent. How much of that is corporate line toeing vs being genuine, I have no idea. Either way, the Spurs will not be competing for a championship next season.

  7. #1257
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    Please do enligthen me, what are player archetypes that would fit Wemby better.
    I'm sick of you people who just on ideas and never provide context.

    What we're seeing this season is obvious. Wemby is already getting swarmed whenever he's near the paint and we have no spacing to punish it.
    We also have zero good enough playmakers on the team. Including Tre. That's why most our possessions are labored and look straight out of 1975.

    I'd also like to pair Wemby alongside next all-time great point forward, but unfortuantely none of those that fit the timeline seem to be available.
    Same goes for point guards, we went over it a dozen times.

    The only good all-star point guards that could be available this summer are Trae or Garland.
    If we're talking team-oriented point guards, it's just Tyus Jones who'd be a stop gap.
    Or Derrick/Jrue if Celtics fail again because they can't extend both and they won't let them walk for free.

    I'd want Trae only if he fully accepts that he's there for Wemby, not the other way around. And if he also accepts that he'll never get an extension for more than 45ish per year.
    He can forget the supermax. 40 a year is enough of a bag. If just wants the money and treadmill for the rest of his career, then he can stay in Atlanta.

    I'd also have nothing against giving Celtics their pick back for Derrick.
    I just don't want Tre or a rookie starting the next season because it would be a disaster. If we draft a point guard, then get a good veteran who's an actual NBA starter and trade Tre.
    Rookie can start off the bench.
    There are no point guards in this draft that will be anywhere close to ready to start the next season. Or the season after.

    But regardless of how point guards situation develops, 3-D perimeter players are a must because we're tragic in both those departments.
    Naz Reid and Herb would be perfect fits. Same goes for Allen as a free agent, best one we can get on the market. I don't want Tobias Harris, he's just such a flaccid player.
    It is really geared toward Trae. 2 bigs lineup with spot up shooters. The main thing is a defender like Trae, reduces Wemby best value right now, which is as a rim protector. It puts him out of position most of the time, cause you can't switch anything involving him and some teams can attack you in every angle, which is the main downfall of the UTA Gobert team in the playoffs. You are also completely changing your offense to run a PNR heavy scheme, cause that is what Trae does, it completely negates Wemby's primary strength which is his offensive versatility. As I said, your not actually building a team around Wemby, your just building around his lob catching. If there is no player in free agency or draft, then try again next year, we have a long runway. Guys like Topic and Tyus are true unselfish guys at the 1, they maybe defensive liabilities but they don't dictate your playstyle and they still guard some POA. Fat Batum at the 4 or just wait for Sochan to shoot, Rui or Pat Williams can maybe both defend in space and guard 5 that takes Wemby out of the paint. MPJ, Murphy, Cam Johnson, Zacchh at the 3 just snipers who can also slide their feet. Devin at the 2 or any secondary playmaker who can slide their feet. Any archetype that takes him out of the paint on defense is a bad archetype.

  8. #1258
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    Tell me you haven't seen Naz Reid play without telling me you haven't seen Naz Reid play.
    You know that he's got wing handles and isn't a true big? Something along the lines of Gordon without outwordly vertical, but with elite shooting.
    Please go watch some videos of his and then check the advanced stats, then come back and tell me why would he be anything short of a perfect fit with Wemby.

    with spot up shooters.
    Grayson Allen is the only one out of all those targets who's a true spot up shooter.
    And we really need one of those because none of our current players is an actual off-ball threat.
    Every legit team has 3-D players that don't really need the ball and play their best basketball by picking their spots.
    We also need a point of attack defender.

    The main thing is a defender like Trae, reduces Wemby best value right now, which is as a rim protector. It puts him out of position most of the time, cause you can't switch anything involving him and some teams can attack you in every angle, which is the main downfall of the UTA Gobert team in the playoffs.
    The downfall of UTA teams in the playoffs was that their entire team was trash defensively and Gobert played 1v5 defense at times. O'Neale and Ingles were the only good defenders.
    All the talk about Trae being a bad defender, which he is, would be valid if we had better defenders. But we don't. He's not any worse than Tre.
    And we're dying for someone who can make us look like an actual basketball team instead a bunch of randoms that gathered at your local gym for the first time.

    You are also completely changing your offense to run a PNR heavy scheme, cause that is what Trae does, it completely negates Wemby's primary strength which is his offensive versatility.
    Because Wemby is getting a lot of varied looks right now? The only points he doesn't creat for himself are the easiest passes you or I could make. And even those aren't made a lot of the time.
    Who says Trae can't play off the ball?

    As I said, your not actually building a team around Wemby, your just building around his lob catching.
    It's not about ing lob catching, ffs. Why do you people have such a simplistic view on basketball?
    It's about noone on the team having any gravity that would help Wemby.
    Whether it be playmaking gravity and ability to collapse defenses or shooting gravity that would make opponents reluctant to help off those players.

    If there is no player in free agency or draft, then try again next year, we have a long runway. Guys like Topic and Tyus are true unselfish guys at the 1, they maybe defensive liabilities but they don't dictate your playstyle and they still guard some POA.
    Ok, I don't want to insult you, but who the am I talking with here?
    Did you just write that Topic can guard some POA? Are you serious? Have you ever seen the kid play?
    I guarantee you that 95% of posters in here would straight up refuse to draft topic if he was a domestic prospect and not almost a countrymen of Doncic.

    You don't want Trae because he's a bad defender, but you'd take ing Topic? Are you people just trolling in here?

    Fat Batum at the 4 or just wait for Sochan to shoot, Rui or Pat Williams can maybe both defend in space and guard 5 that takes Wemby out of the paint.
    Batum is washed and retiring after this season. I guess maybe playing one more year with Wemby could persuade him.
    Hachimura is a worse player than any of the wings I suggested, but he plays for the Lakers, so I guess you bought into their propaganda.
    Pat Williams just had a foot surgery and is up for an extension.

    You're legit naming players that are a couple of tiers below Naz Reid on both ends of the floor.

    MPJ, Murphy, Cam Johnson, Zacchh at the 3 just snipers who can also slide their feet. Devin at the 2 or any secondary playmaker who can slide their feet. Any archetype that takes him out of the paint on defense is a bad archetype.
    You want MPJ?
    If you don't believe me, ask Nuggets fans and everyone will tell you that MPJ is one of the dumbest players in the league. Negative IQ.
    But he's got size and shooting stroke, so they tolerate him.
    He should be giving two thirds of his paycheck to Jokic.
    And he's not a good team defender, awful IQ and instincts.
    He's also making 35 to 40M a year until 2027.
    You don't want Trae for that salary, but you want MPJ? Do you ing people even watch any actual NBA games or just play fantasy and 2K?

    I see that you're also already projecting Risacher (if that's Zachhh, because I hope it's not Lavine) as an elite shooter.
    Again, much like Topic, you have absolutely no clue about the player you're talking about.


    I'm not going to pretend that I'm some all-knowing expert, but some of you people are so lost, holy ing .
    You spewed so much nonsense and contradiction in one post I legitimately got upset.

  9. #1259
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    The spurs have never shown the appe e to trade a bunch of picks for a guy but we’ve also never had a bunch of excess picks at our disposal

    We’ve also not had a superstar level player on a roster this desperate in need of a talent infusion to even be an average nba team. Robinson and duncan arrived in good situations so there was no motivation to pull such a trade

  10. #1260
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    I also just realized Grayson Allen is a free agent this summer.
    Most efficent 3pt shooter in the league this season on high volume. And a good defender. And doesn't need the ball.

    I'd gladly get some assets back for Devin and get Allen who'd fit way better and earn less.

    Devin Vassell’s game is limited in a couple of ways. He lacks a quick first step, to gain separation from a defender, and he isn’t fast in general, by NBA standards. This is why he so often ends up taking difficult shots. He has trouble getting space. Also, he’s a bonehead. Now, I do not know the gentleman personally, but I mean, in basketball terms he’s dense, a low BBIQ. I can be specific on that point if anybody cares. It would take a while to describe.

    Grayson Allen - UFA this summer, as you mention. Base salary under his current contract, $8.5 M. Age 28, and this is his 6th season. He’s represented by CAA if that matters.

    Grayson has consistently shot 40% on 3ptrs since his rookie season, with three different teams. Even better this year, as you mention. League leader at this time. His percentage has undoubtedly been helped by the gravity of KD and Booker. He’s getting open looks as their outlet, when defenses collapse on them, and he’s doing an excellent job in the outlet role.

    Grayson’s assist numbers aren’t much, but that goes with his role. He isn’t first option. The Suns will try KD or Booker first, so Grayson won’t get the pass until later in the shot clock, when he’ll need to shoot. You wouldn’t expect much for assists in that role.

    It isn’t trivial to observe that Grayson has performed well on teams with superstars. First Giannis, now KD, and Booker. By his history, he knows how to fit in, as a secondary piece, and do a good job.

    I’d be fine with Grayson Allen replacing Vassell. Not that the Spurs would be inclined to do that, or would be able to. I have yet to see any evidence that the Spurs front office is competent at team building. The Spurs are currently stuck using the main roster for what is essentially G-league development, which is pathetic.

    Others you mention…

    Naz Reid, I would absolutely not give a first round pick for him. His rebounding and block numbers aren’t good enough. A big who’s worth a 1st round pick needs to be better near the basket. For salary plus 2nd round picks, ok.

    Buying the Brooklyn Bridges, well, if the price is right, despite how that looks.

    Things to talk about, anyway.

  11. #1261
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    Naz Reid, I would absolutely not give a first round pick for him. His rebounding and block numbers aren’t good enough. A big who’s worth a 1st round pick needs to be better near the basket. For salary plus 2nd round picks, ok.
    Well, if he was elite at rebounding and rim protection, he would be worth way more and out of reach.
    He's a great perimeter defender for his size, solid on switches for his size against both guards and actual bigs.

    His rebounding numbers are similar to Gordon's and he's a better shot blocker.
    Noone thinks that Gordon should be a better rebounder.
    And don't forget that he's been playing mot of his minutes with Gobert who's arguably the best rebounder in the league.

    The entire point of finding a partner for Wemby is finding someone who will give him space in the paint.
    And his finishing around the rim is decent. He's got some solid moves, reminds me of Siakam with his spins.

    I'd rather have him than Markkanen if we take the asking price and contract demands into account.
    I just don't see a better partner for Wemby right now if we talk role players and not actual stars.

    I agree with everything else.

  12. #1262
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    It's not even about clutch plays for me, it's about him completely disappearing in a lot of games.
    I'd rather have him chuck us out of the game than leave that duty to Keldon and Jeremy.

    I also just realized Grayson Allen is a free agent this summer.
    Most efficent 3pt shooter in the league this season on high volume. And a good defender. And doesn't need the ball.

    I'd gladly get some assets back for Devin and get Allen who'd fit way better and earn less.

    And with these recent developments, I'm more and more in line of dumping this entire roster.

    My subjective, ideal scenario as of now:

    1. Naz Reid for either one good first rounder or two weaker ones. Maybe one solid first and a swap. Anyhow, needs to be the priority. Wolves can also get anyone they want on the roster if they'd like.
    2. Trae for Keldon+Collins and Hawks picks.
    3. Grayson Allen as a free agent. Not many teams have cap space and not many teams need a shooting guard. Offer him 70/4 or 80/5.
    4. Get rid of Devin's contract while teams see him as the only good player except Wemby on our roster. Find a 3-D wing coming our way. Maybe Brooklyn would take Devin in a deal for Bridges. I don't think Pelicans would take him in a deal for Jones/Murphy. Okoro is another, cheaper target I'd like.

    Cap is at $141M the next season.
    Not guaranteeing Devonte means Spurs have 34M in cap space.
    Devin, Keldon and Collins are due 64M, trading them would leave us with 98M in cap space.

    Trae, Reid and Bridges will make 80M combined.
    18M left for Grayson Allen.

    If someone wuold take Jeremy and/or Branham, that's another 5.5+3.2M in cap space.

    Building around Wemby isn't rocket science, just get him an elite playmaker who's a triple threat and has gravity of his own, add 3-D players on the perimeter and we're in the playoffs right away...if Pop gets over himself, that is.
    Trae-Grayson-SF-Naz-Wemby is an elite lineup if we can get Bridges or Herb for the SF position.

    Jones as the backup PG. Barlow/Bassey as backup bigs, with Reid also being to take some minutes there.
    SF we draft this year, Cissoko and Champagnie as backup perimeter players. Also Jeremy if noone takes him.
    I like it a lot.

    Especially the part where we sell Vassell high before the rest of the league realises.

  13. #1263
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    Something to note for team building. We NEED shooting in our starters. Look at OKC, Josh Giddey being unable to shoot makes him basically impossible to play in key moments and will likely play like 8 minutes a game in the playoffs.
    I would keep Devin because he can shoot, but unless you're taking Reed Shepphard in the draft, Trae is an excellent solution. Let's not pretend that he'll play the same offense that he does in atlanta here, I hate pop but it's very obvious statistically that the spurs play with a share the ball style of offense.
    Also I'd like to add for like the 20th time. There at times where Wemby gets literally quintuple teamed on offense. Trae would KILL for another player that gets that level of attention, nobody is scared of Dejounte shooting threes.
    LeBowen I really liked your breakdown but I don't see us getting Naz Reid esp since he's a huge part of a top seed in the west this year and the Timberpups are gonna be looking to continue to contend as Ant develops.
    BRING TRAE HOME!

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    Something to note for team building. We NEED shooting in our starters. Look at OKC, Josh Giddey being unable to shoot makes him basically impossible to play in key moments and will likely play like 8 minutes a game in the playoffs.
    I would keep Devin because he can shoot, but unless you're taking Reed Shepphard in the draft, Trae is an excellent solution. Let's not pretend that he'll play the same offense that he does in atlanta here, I hate pop but it's very obvious statistically that the spurs play with a share the ball style of offense.
    Also I'd like to add for like the 20th time. There at times where Wemby gets literally quintuple teamed on offense. Trae would KILL for another player that gets that level of attention, nobody is scared of Dejounte shooting threes.
    LeBowen I really liked your breakdown but I don't see us getting Naz Reid esp since he's a huge part of a top seed in the west this year and the Timberpups are gonna be looking to continue to contend as Ant develops.
    BRING TRAE HOME!
    Quinn was actually brought in to run his motion offense. DJ to take the ball out of his hands. Trae just never bought in. Would it be different here? That is the 60 million question.

  15. #1265
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    ^ Too many moving parts. Getting rid of youth with small contacts and plenty picks is a sure way to blow your load way too early.

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    Tell me you haven't seen Naz Reid play without telling me you haven't seen Naz Reid play.
    You know that he's got wing handles and isn't a true big? Something along the lines of Gordon without outwordly vertical, but with elite shooting.
    Please go watch some videos of his and then check the advanced stats, then come back and tell me why would he be anything short of a perfect fit with Wemby.



    Grayson Allen is the only one out of all those targets who's a true spot up shooter.
    And we really need one of those because none of our current players is an actual off-ball threat.
    Every legit team has 3-D players that don't really need the ball and play their best basketball by picking their spots.
    We also need a point of attack defender.



    The downfall of UTA teams in the playoffs was that their entire team was trash defensively and Gobert played 1v5 defense at times. O'Neale and Ingles were the only good defenders.
    All the talk about Trae being a bad defender, which he is, would be valid if we had better defenders. But we don't. He's not any worse than Tre.
    And we're dying for someone who can make us look like an actual basketball team instead a bunch of randoms that gathered at your local gym for the first time.



    Because Wemby is getting a lot of varied looks right now? The only points he doesn't creat for himself are the easiest passes you or I could make. And even those aren't made a lot of the time.
    Who says Trae can't play off the ball?



    It's not about ing lob catching, ffs. Why do you people have such a simplistic view on basketball?
    It's about noone on the team having any gravity that would help Wemby.
    Whether it be playmaking gravity and ability to collapse defenses or shooting gravity that would make opponents reluctant to help off those players.



    Ok, I don't want to insult you, but who the am I talking with here?
    Did you just write that Topic can guard some POA? Are you serious? Have you ever seen the kid play?
    I guarantee you that 95% of posters in here would straight up refuse to draft topic if he was a domestic prospect and not almost a countrymen of Doncic.

    You don't want Trae because he's a bad defender, but you'd take ing Topic? Are you people just trolling in here?



    Batum is washed and retiring after this season. I guess maybe playing one more year with Wemby could persuade him.
    Hachimura is a worse player than any of the wings I suggested, but he plays for the Lakers, so I guess you bought into their propaganda.
    Pat Williams just had a foot surgery and is up for an extension.

    You're legit naming players that are a couple of tiers below Naz Reid on both ends of the floor.



    You want MPJ?
    If you don't believe me, ask Nuggets fans and everyone will tell you that MPJ is one of the dumbest players in the league. Negative IQ.
    But he's got size and shooting stroke, so they tolerate him.
    He should be giving two thirds of his paycheck to Jokic.
    And he's not a good team defender, awful IQ and instincts.
    He's also making 35 to 40M a year until 2027.
    You don't want Trae for that salary, but you want MPJ? Do you ing people even watch any actual NBA games or just play fantasy and 2K?

    I see that you're also already projecting Risacher (if that's Zachhh, because I hope it's not Lavine) as an elite shooter.
    Again, much like Topic, you have absolutely no clue about the player you're talking about.


    I'm not going to pretend that I'm some all-knowing expert, but some of you people are so lost, holy ing .
    You spewed so much nonsense and contradiction in one post I legitimately got upset.
    I just think Trae defense is that bad. There is no contradiction. I still think you built around Trae. You don't even have a secondary ball handler in there. You can't run motion offense and you can't have a switching defense, you cant run DHO, can't run inverted PNR. It is all on Wemby post ups and Trae Young PNR.

  17. #1267
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    We get it, Young is a polarizing player, a chucker, too small, defensive liability, possible locker room cancer. I’d not be interested at all, except that we are desperate for ANY legit NBA players at this stage, especially at PG. Though our own Tre is developing into a might fine backup level NBA PG, IMO.

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    I just think Trae defense is that bad. There is no contradiction. I still think you built around Trae. You don't even have a secondary ball handler in there. You can't run motion offense and you can't have a switching defense, you cant run DHO, can't run inverted PNR. It is all on Wemby post ups and Trae Young PNR.
    His defense would definitely be a bigger issue than the sieves here simply due to role. Where they'd at best be spot minute players on a playoff team, he'd be the second best player.

    Of course you could still run some motion, but "system" offense is what's resorted to in order to make up for lack of elite individual talent. The latter is almost always what wins in this league though. It's what won 4 of the 5 Spurs championships.

  19. #1269
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    The spurs have never shown the appe e to trade a bunch of picks for a guy but we’ve also never had a bunch of excess picks at our disposal

    We’ve also not had a superstar level player on a roster this desperate in need of a talent infusion to even be an average nba team. Robinson and duncan arrived in good situations so there was no motivation to pull such a trade
    This is where Pop is inexperienced. I have to wonder if Pop is willing to admit this roster needs to be greatly altered, as it might indicate he cannot get blood from a turnip, which I am not sure he believes.

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    Whole I'm pro Trae, I do wonder how his game will or would be affected by the current NBA officiating edicts which have reduced foul calls. Trae has basically missed most of that with injury, and of course things can always revert back.

    But free throws and free throw scamming has been a large part of his game.

    I still would like to see him traded for.

  21. #1271
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    His defense would definitely be a bigger issue than the sieves here simply due to role. Where they'd at best be spot minute players on a playoff team, he'd be the second best player.

    Of course you could still run some motion, but "system" offense is what's resorted to in order to make up for lack of elite individual talent. The latter is almost always what wins in this league though. It's what won 4 of the 5 Spurs championships.
    You can't run motion with only 1 good decision maker, that was the lineup he built that we are discussing. Not only that but the only decision maker is a selfish one.

  22. #1272
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    The spurs have never shown the appe e to trade a bunch of picks for a guy but we’ve also never had a bunch of excess picks at our disposal

    We’ve also not had a superstar level player on a roster this desperate in need of a talent infusion to even be an average nba team. Robinson and duncan arrived in good situations so there was no motivation to pull such a trade
    Their draft record these last 5 years should also invite them to reconsider the idea of building a contender only or mainly that way. They've been pretty bad at picking overall, whether it's in the loterry or not, with no real, future star or even elite role player(s) to show up for it. If not for lucking into Wemby last year, the situation would be alarming. There might not be one guy they picked these last few years that could start in a Wemby lead, contending team (besides Devin maybe but there were better picks than him too that year) or that would even deserve a roster spot.
    Many of those picks have/will end up as 3rd stringers to borderline NBA players, with Sochan and Keldon as the only real other rotation guys

    They'be better off using those picks to bring some proven talent, specially after precisely getting Wemby.

  23. #1273
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    I just think Trae defense is that bad. There is no contradiction. I still think you built around Trae. You don't even have a secondary ball handler in there. You can't run motion offense and you can't have a switching defense, you cant run DHO, can't run inverted PNR. It is all on Wemby post ups and Trae Young PNR.
    There is contradiction because you don't want Trae, but then you suggest MPJ and his disgusting contract.
    Having a bad defender at SF/PF is worse than having a bad defender at PG.

    Secondary ball handler? If there was one, you'd say Wemby would never see the ball.
    I think Wemby can and will tighten up his handles and we don't really need a secondary ball handler.
    All those guys I mentioned as trade targets are decent with the ball and can easily score in a mismatch.

    And we can't go from 0 to 100 in one summer. That secondary playmaker and one or two more pieces would have to wait.

    If you don't think Grayson/Bridges/Reid wouldn't be able to run motion offense, DHOs or switch 2 through 5 I suggest you watch some actual NBA games and stop spewing nonsense.
    I'm trying really hard to be nice on this forum, but I'm just baffled at how some people like yourself have so much confidence in their takes when it's blatantly obvious you barely watch any games around the league.

    Reid is a 6'9 forward who can spend some minutes on the floor together with both KAT and Gobert. He can also play the backup 5 against teams with no actual big on the bench.
    Bridges isn't good enough to be the first option, but he's a better iso scorer than Devin. And he's got that freak wingspan, can easily play PF.
    Grayson is spending a lot of minutes at SF and can easily guard 1-3.
    Herb Jones is 6'8 and is forched to defend SG a lot because Pelicans have Ingram and Trey Murphy, with Zion being the PF.

    But then you come in here and talk about not being able to switch because you're completely clueless.
    And it's not even about Trae as I already said, but about you dismissing forwards that would be perfect for Wemby in every sense.

    All the talk about motion offense. As if Danny or young nephew had any handles or playmaking ability.
    They learned the system and knew their A/B/C options in any given situations.
    After that, we had LMA as the second option behind nephew. Took over as first option after 2017 fiasco.
    LMA's passing and playmaking vision was the worst I've ever seen out of any all-star big that could shoot.
    He was so horrible at it.
    And yet we had two seasons of 60+ wins with him as the second option and he did a great job carrying for two more years after nephew left.
    We brought in Demar, a player everyone saw as a Kobe wannabe with major tunnel vision issues.

    He was 29 when he joined and his career assists average was 3.
    His average from the season he joined us to right now is 5.6.
    If Demar Derozan, one of the worst cases of tunnel vision you'll ever see, could learn how to spread the ball around and even run the offense at times, then anyone can improve.
    But I don't know if Pop is that guy anymore.

    Trae Young has all the necessary skills to play in any and every type of offense, it's just down to his willigness to do so. And coaching.
    He's not Russ who never had any bball IQ or shooting range.

    You have to accept that it's going to be extremely hard to find an elite playmaker who's also a good defender.
    I'd rather have the next Jason Kidd or Gary Payton instead of Trae, but it's not going to happen.
    If we could let's say get Derrick back, would you complain about Derrick/Grayson/Herb/Reid/Wemby lineup?
    Or even Derrick/Devin/Herb/Reid/Wemby since you don't seem to like Grayson?


    ^ Too many moving parts. Getting rid of youth with small contacts and plenty picks is a sure way to blow your load way too early.
    Which youth with small contracts am I suggesting to get rid of?
    Keldon is in his fifth year and has made no improvements whatsoever over the past few years.
    He's a disgustingly bad defender despite his phyiscal talents, he's got major tunnel vision issues and he's a streaky shooter that struggles more often than not.
    Idk what do you think he can become, but I personally think he's reached his ceiling.
    His contract isn't that big, but it's not small, either. Definitely not worth the money.

    As I said multiple times, I wouldn't get rid of Devin just for the sake of it, but I'm open to including him into a trade for better players.
    While he's obviously better than Keldon, his extension is big and he's nowhere close being worth that money right now.
    He's a scorer that doesn't offer much else, but somehow he keeps deferring to worse players (read: Keldon and Jeremy) when Wemby struggles and often goes missing in the most important stretches of games, even when he's scoring well.
    People like comparing him to Middleton, but as someone said, he's got no clutch highlights and that's a recurring theme.

    Except for Trae, none of those guys I mentioned are expensive.
    Spurs have 9 FRPs and countless seconds in the next 4 years.
    If we're not trading any of our players and keeping all the picks, how are we going to fit all that in the roster?

    To make some comparisons, Denver traded away Gary Harris, Will Barton and Jerami Grant. Three of their key rotation players in bubble WCF run.
    They were good, but not good enough.
    While we're obviously nowhere near WCF, it's pretty clear that Keldon can't be a part of a winning roster. And it looks increasingly likely that Devin won't be worth 30 million a year.

    Bucks traded away Bledsoe and Brogdon to get Jrue.

    Obviously we don't have to get an entire new roster for Wemby right away, but I want at least two proven starters that would be immediate upgrades for the next season.
    They don't have to be all-stars, but we need something.
    Right now Hornets are the only team with longer lottery streak than us. It's just embarrassing.

    We more or less wasted 4 straight FRPs in two drafts before Wemby. And now we're in a draft that has zero guarantees.
    What makes you so optimistic that Brian will be Wright, and not Wrong, this time?

  24. #1274
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    We get it, Young is a polarizing player, a chucker, too small, defensive liability, possible locker room cancer. I’d not be interested at all, except that we are desperate for ANY legit NBA players at this stage, especially at PG. Though our own Tre is developing into a might fine backup level NBA PG, IMO.
    If it goes south with Trae, you waste Wemby’s entire 20s decade. There’s no recovering from that, and no chance to ever get picks like those again.

  25. #1275
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    If it goes south with Trae, you waste Wemby’s entire 20s decade. There’s no recovering from that, and no chance to ever get picks like those again.
    Trae stays with the Hawks -> those picks are in the late lottery, maybe we get one top10 pick.
    Trae is traded somewhere else -> Hawks have no incentive to tank because they don't own their picks, no chance for those picks to be in top5.
    Trae is traded with the Spurs -> Hawks can tank.

    Trading for Trae has obvious risks and could backfire, but it's way safer than Brian Wright picking in 8-15 range.

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