Spurs Select F Jeremy Sochan with the 9th Pick in the 2022 NBA Draft

[Mugen]

The lineup for this season doesn't really matter, Spurs will be mediocre at best with their current roster. What matters is the lineup in 2/3 years when Spurs will try to be a serious contender.

IMO, Spurs' plan A for their future lineup is:
PG: a new player
SG: Vassell
SF: Johnson
PF: Sochan
C: Wembanyama

That's the plan A and it might, of course, derail: Johnson and/or Sochan might not be good enough, Wembanyama might be more suited to play PF...

Now, if everything goes well, it will be a damn good lineup.

Luka can be a free agent in '26 as well....

[Chinook]

I like a rotation of:

Graham, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Branham, Champangie
Johnson, Osman, McDermott
Wembanyama, Sochan, Cissoko
Collins, Bassey, Mamukelashvili

With Rice, Barlow and Bediako as the two-way guys.

I think Graham gives the Spurs some dynamism when it comes to scoring without dominating the ball, but he can bring the ball up the floor, which is apparently all being a PG means to some folks. Sochan playing off the bench makes sense, but if you're worried about him and Jones, Jeremy can switch with Keldon. Then Sochan can "play PG" while Graham takes an off-ball role.

I don't love Collins as a starter based on the limited tape. I think he might work best as Victor's backup with a more energetic center as the starter. Collins seems to do his best work as the main inside presence, and a team with a 7-4 star will never cede that to him. I don't love Bassey as the starter, but his energy might set a better tone than Collins' willingness to get into scrapes.

McDermott is probably a safer bet over Osman, but I think Cedi might add some all around stability to that young bench unit than the more specialized McD wouldn't.

[spurraider21]

just based on the 3 preseason games, doesnt look like graham is in line for as big a role as he was last year. could just be giving the vet rest knowing he's going to be a fixture, but he's really been an afterthought in the 3 games so far, even with Tre and Sochan missing a game apiece

[RC_Drunkford]

1.02 PPP is well below league average for efficiency across all plays types from last season (1.148), so I don't think I would want a steady diet of PnRs with Vassell.

being in the 84th percentile is far above average. He's in the top 50 of all NBA players.

[Seventyniner]

Here's the thing: Yes, that variation of LAL didn't need a PG most of the time. The Heatles didn't either. Yet they both still had PGs rather than starting bigger players there. Why? You can argue no one of the those Lakers teams could handle the ball well enough to justify taking even that job over Fisher. This is before they had guys like Odom and MWP. But what's the Heatles excuse? Lebron is a far more talented PG than Sochan can ever hope to be. Wade was more than capable of doing it. Heck Bosh could do it. The Heat had numerous role-playing wings who could dribble a ball up the court. Yet they still had Chalmers playing a big role and very quickly drafted a backup PG in Cole. even when you had a big PG for real in Magic Johnson, the team still started a PG-sized player next to him. What's the deal? Why do teams that have every chance to be positionless still keep to positions?

In general, my guess is that it's a combination of:

• Defense. Somebody has to defend smalls and guys like Battier and Odom aren't well-suited to doing that for more than short stretches.
• The backcourt. Somebody has to bring the ball up past halfcourt and it's much easier for a shorter player to protect his dribble while doing so.
• Shooting. On offense the easiest type of role player to fit with superstars is an elite catch-and-shoot threat. Guys like that who aren't either short (Fisher, Chalmers) or huge defensive liabilities are very rare.
• Height distribution. For a given skillset taller players are less plentiful than shorter players, so the taller players will command more of the salary cap and filling out a lineup, let alone a roster, with these "positionless" tall players is difficult.
• Redundancy. Putting two wings and two bigs (or three wings and one big) next to someone like Magic or LeBron might leave you without a secondary ballhandler and almost certainly leaves you without a third. This overlaps some with the backcourt stuff above.

I will have to put some more thought into this; I'm not fully convinced of all of these points but I think they're a good place to start. I'm not going to defend this to the hilt cause I didn't watch the Showtime Lakers at all and the Heatles mainly when they played the Spurs.

[exstatic]

I like a rotation of:

Graham, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Branham, Champangie
Johnson, Osman, McDermott
Wembanyama, Sochan, Cissoko
Collins, Bassey, Mamukelashvili

With Rice, Barlow and Bediako as the two-way guys.

I think Graham gives the Spurs some dynamism when it comes to scoring without dominating the ball, but he can bring the ball up the floor, which is apparently all being a PG means to some folks. Sochan playing off the bench makes sense, but if you're worried about him and Jones, Jeremy can switch with Keldon. Then Sochan can "play PG" while Graham takes an off-ball role.

I don't love Collins as a starter based on the limited tape. I think he might work best as Victor's backup with a more energetic center as the starter. Collins seems to do his best work as the main inside presence, and a team with a 7-4 star will never cede that to him. I don't love Bassey as the starter, but his energy might set a better tone than Collins' willingness to get into scrapes.

McDermott is probably a safer bet over Osman, but I think Cedi might add some all around stability to that young bench unit than the more specialized McD wouldn't.

Collins starts because he shoots the 3 ball. We lack enough good shooters in the SL without removing one to replace him with another non 3 ball shooter.

[Obstructed_View]

Collins starts because he shoots the 3 ball. We lack enough good shooters in the SL without removing one to replace him with another non 3 ball shooter.

To add to your point, Pop told Collins to shoot when open, and I haven't seen him fail to do that a single time. His production and at ude are hard not to reward with a starting gig.

[Chinook]

Collins starts because he shoots the 3 ball. We lack enough good shooters in the SL without removing one to replace him with another non 3 ball shooter.

Bassey can shoot too. Collins is more practiced, and I have no problem saying he's the better shooter. But I think that's not a huge problem, especially if we are talking about Graham being in instead of Jones or Sochan.

[Chinook]

In general, my guess is that it's a combination of:

• Defense. Somebody has to defend smalls and guys like Battier and Odom aren't well-suited to doing that for more than short stretches.
• The backcourt. Somebody has to bring the ball up past halfcourt and it's much easier for a shorter player to protect his dribble while doing so.
• Shooting. On offense the easiest type of role player to fit with superstars is an elite catch-and-shoot threat. Guys like that who aren't either short (Fisher, Chalmers) or huge defensive liabilities are very rare.
• Height distribution. For a given skillset taller players are less plentiful than shorter players, so the taller players will command more of the salary cap and filling out a lineup, let alone a roster, with these "positionless" tall players is difficult.
• Redundancy. Putting two wings and two bigs (or three wings and one big) next to someone like Magic or LeBron might leave you without a secondary ballhandler and almost certainly leaves you without a third. This overlaps some with the backcourt stuff above.

I will have to put some more thought into this; I'm not fully convinced of all of these points but I think they're a good place to start. I'm not going to defend this to the hilt cause I didn't watch the Showtime Lakers at all and the Heatles mainly when they played the Spurs.

Yep. That's sort of what I've been trying to say when it comes to why when it comes to why starting Sochan at "PG" with a traditional lineup doesn't feel like a viable idea. Even if you find guys who can do some of these things, like Simmons defending smalls or having the benefit of a Middleton who can also create so Giannis doesn't have to be the only guy, you still run into situations where having those shorter guys just makes sense. There are too many good players who are physically PGs for the Spurs to build the best roster they can while pushing for "positionless" players. It's a rather inefficient roster-building method that's perpetually prone to being beaten by more traditional lineups.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know why anyone thinks the Spurs are going to try to acquire a traditional point guard. They have made no effort to do so through 90 percent of the time I've been a fan of them.

[spurraider21]

I don't know why anyone thinks the Spurs are going to try to acquire a traditional point guard. They have made no effort to do so through 90 percent of the time I've been a fan of them.

dont forget the one that got away, TJ Ford

[Obstructed_View]

dont forget the one that got away, TJ Ford

Is he the one who fell on his ass and injured his spine?

[rascal]

This whole season will be an experiment to see what they have roster wise moving forward. Sochan at pg is only because the spurs don't have a good pg. That's why I see around 30 wins and back in the lottery to get a true pg.

Next year is when we'll see big leaps of team success with a more traditional pg.

[R. DeMurre]

Yeah, it's Year One of the Wembanyama Era. At least 70% of these players likely won't even be here in 4 years. This is the year for Pop to mess around with as many combinations as possible, because in the future Wemby-led championship year(s), it'll be a very different team anyway. I see the Sochan experiment as warming him up for a future solid secondary ballhandler role. I don't think anyone really thinks he'll be the starting PG of the 2026 Spurs.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Is he the one who fell on his ass and injured his spine?

Yes and in the 2012 series against OKC when everyone was still sunshine pumping after game 3 loss I was saying how we needed his play making and change of pace or the Thunder had our offense totally figured out and timvp made a big deal laughing about it

He would have helped greatly had his spine held up.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah I liked TJ. Most important point guard injury since Doc.

[poopbox]

Yeah, it's Year One of the Wembanyama Era. At least 70% of these players likely won't even be here in 4 years. This is the year for Pop to mess around with as many combinations as possible, because in the future Wemby-led championship year(s), it'll be a very different team anyway. I see the Sochan experiment as warming him up for a future solid secondary ballhandler role. I don't think anyone really thinks he'll be the starting PG of the 2026 Spurs.

Meh. I think Pop is legit going to give Sochan a chance at point. I don't even think Pop views it that way. I think Pop only views it as "Sochan, Wemby, and Devin are the future of my team so they are going to start I don't care about positions"

[Obstructed_View]

Sochan can guard five positions. It would take an amazing point guard to push him to the bench.

[spurraider21]

Being a good passer for your position doesn’t make you a point guard

[John B]

Sochan is not being developed as a PG, but a more all-around player during this “development year” while Wemby and Co are still being developed. Pop sees in Jeremy as someone who has unlimited potential, fearless and does everything. He is willimg to learn with gusto as evident with his one-handed FT. With future All-NBA Wemby, then Devin as highly All-Star (maybe Keldon), the future is bright if Spurs can develop Sochan as that glue-guy who does everything, pass, push the ball, defense and high character guy.

Stop obsessing about Sochan as PG. It’s a season to develop, getting to know how to play together, while honing other skills. Enjoy the ride

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, people are obsessing over the 'PG' thing. There are two elements: 1) bringing the ball up the court and 2) stirring the defense and forcing defensive players to make decisions.

People are thinking what is being said is "Jeremy Sochan is Chris Paul" which is kind of a nonsense assumption to make.

In the heyday the Spurs used Tony Parker as the guy who stirred the defense around with his movement with the ball, forcing defenders to make choices about coverage. Sochan might not do everything Parker does, but right now a primary duty will be 1) and possibly getting the offense moving in ways to force reactions.

That's it.

[Mr. Body]

As always the real question is who Sochan is guarding and whether he can do it.

[Spurs Homer]

The REAL question is:

is wemby playing tonite against the hated warriors?

[R. DeMurre]

The 72 win Bulls started 6'6" Ron Harper, 6'6" MJ, and 6'8" Scottie Pippen. Harper gets the PG designation mostly by default on stat pages, but all three could bring the ball up court and initiate the offense, and Pippen probably did that more than anyone else. But that's really a team without a traditional starting PG.

For me, the thing that'll be really interesting to watch will just be which really good player(s) actually become available. There's an interesting story from Phil Jackson about the Bulls deciding that PF was the position where they most needed an upgrade, so they sat down and made a list of their favorite possible PFs to pursue. For Jackson, #1 was Derrick Coleman. Rodman wasn't even in the top 5, but as it became apparent that the others weren't available, he became the choice. I doubt Coleman would've fit as well as Rodman did, regardless of all the drama, so it was probably lucky for them that things panned out the way they did. Imagine if some weird outlier situation pops up and someone like Chet Holmgren becomes available... I don't think anyone is planning for a combination like that right now, but it would be fascinating to see how the FO would evaluate that.

[exstatic]

The 72 win Bulls started 6'6" Ron Harper, 6'6" MJ, and 6'8" Scottie Pippen. Harper gets the PG designation mostly by default on stat pages, but all three could bring the ball up court and initiate the offense, and Pippen probably did that more than anyone else. But that's really a team without a traditional starting PG.

For me, the thing that'll be really interesting to watch will just be which really good player(s) actually become available. There's an interesting story from Phil Jackson about the Bulls deciding that PF was the position where they most needed an upgrade, so they sat down and made a list of their favorite possible PFs to pursue. For Jackson, #1 was Derrick Coleman. Rodman wasn't even in the top 5, but as it became apparent that the others weren't available, he became the choice. I doubt Coleman would've fit as well as Rodman did, regardless of all the drama, so it was probably lucky for them that things panned out the way they did. Imagine if some weird outlier situation pops up and someone like Chet Holmgren becomes available... I don't think anyone is planning for a combination like that right now, but it would be fascinating to see how the FO would evaluate that.

The Bulls NEVER ran a traditional PG under Big Chief Triangle. Kerr wasn't, nor was Paxson. They were spot up shooters that played off of Pip/MJ.