Fischer: Spurs Repeatedly Mentioned By NBA Figures As Potential Home For Young

[JPB]

That (addition by subtraction) is not what I’m saying at all. For now, we need to stop assuming that the Hawks default position is to trade Trae - it is not, it is to keep him. And if they keeping him, they likely don’t view themselves as a lottery team (because they aren’t. They are solidly in the Play-In, as they were with him, and they have maintained without him - their win % is pretty much the same with and without so far, and of course we can talk about what that means but I won’t in this post). So if they want to continue to build on that team, they have plenty of assets to do so, they are not some asset poor who can’t trade ANY picks and have no valuable players to trade. They actually have both.

The only way Trae comes as cheap as this board thinks is if he demands a trade, but the Hawks would just keep him. Whether or not we as fans would be happy paying the actual price is for everyone to decide on their own. I don’t think the Spurs would or will pay the price necessary, personally.

Again, if he demands a trade - all the calculus changes. My opinion is that the idea that we can get trade for only the Hawks pick (or less) is wishful thinking.

ATL is 10th in the East, with everyone tanking behind. Not all the teams behind will keep tanking from next year on, nor 10th is what they were expecting after trading for Murray. They're on the treadmill, having badly regressed from last year and don't have enough assets to dramaticallty change that. Murray and Trae are the only guys who have real, big value, with a lot of holes to fill in their roster, not to mention bad locker room chemistry.They're not one elite role player away from contending.

I don't see any real future in their team, as such. They were a first round exit last year and might not even make it this season... The more time passes, the more DJM and Trae lose value.

[LeBowen]

Curious if anyone has the stomach to trade Devin for Young? This has always been the theoretical line I've NOT been willing to cross. But I'm bored and its raining outside so I'll do it. ATL wants Devin plus all their picks/swaps back; Spurs say no. They meet in the middle.

The deal is Devin plus ATL '25 and '27 for Young, but those ATL picks turn into swaps that the Spurs control. So the Spurs will have swap rights 3 straight years with ATL, still giving them 2 theoretical bites each year at the Flag/Boozer apples. Any takers?

Curious if you see Devin as this foundational piece, a perfect #3 on a championship team? or maybe instead he's just a soon to be overpriced chucker and very expendable.

Devin is the only player on this roster that's worth keeping and fits around Wemby, but he doesn't have superstar potential and is therefore expendable.
He's not consistent enough and defers way too much to worse players.
And he's one of the easiest archetypes to find in today's league. Shooting guard with average playmaking skills and defense.

If he keeps his current level, he's not worth 30 million a year he got.
Some will say Trae is overpaid, but he'll make just 13 million more than Devin next season and he's a way better player.

I'd easily take the offer you proposed.
Two average firsts and Devin for Trae while still keeping a lot of free cap space is a great deal.
But I don't think Hawks would accept that.

I'd then try adding Capela and Keldon in the deal.
Capela is on an expiring contract next season and would be a great backup for Wemby.
Keldon maybe still has some value and Hawks are a franchise that gets fooled by empty stats players.

If they don't want swaps, but want their picks back so they can tank, they'd have to take Collins+Keldon, I wouldn't give up Devin and give them their picks back.

[SOMA Spur]

Devin is the only player on this roster that's worth keeping and fits around Wemby, but he doesn't have superstar potential and is therefore expendable.
He's not consistent enough and defers way too much to worse players.
And he's one of the easiest archetypes to find in today's league. Shooting guard with average playmaking skills and defense.

If he keeps his current level, he's not worth 30 million a year he got.
Some will say Trae is overpaid, but he'll make just 13 million more than Devin next season and he's a way better player.

I'd easily take the offer you proposed.
Two average firsts and Devin for Trae while still keeping a lot of free cap space is a great deal.
But I don't think Hawks would accept that.

I'd then try adding Capela and Keldon in the deal.
Capela is on an expiring contract next season and would be a great backup for Wemby.
Keldon maybe still has some value and Hawks are a franchise that gets fooled by empty stats players.

If they don't want swaps, but want their picks back so they can tank, they'd have to take Collins+Keldon, I wouldn't give up Devin and give them their picks back.

Great point. Lots of avenues to replace a SG. Maybe internally with Branham taking a leap (probably not), draft Knecht with the Toronto pick, or most likely find a Vet who is almost as good as Devin.

[LeBowen]

If we get Trae, Garland or a point guard of that archetype, I don't think we should have a scoring shooting guard next to them.
I'd rather look for the next Danny Green to be the primary point of attack defender and someone who doesn't need the ball, but is an elite off ball threat.

[Knoxxx]

I agree that Vassell is an easy type of player to replace. You have Risacher and Knecht in this draft alone, that could probably be upgrades on Vassell/Johnson. Trae Jones is an excellent passer, in particular on lobs. Having him anywhere near a $40 million salary in today's NBA also seems like a bargain. While I have seen his defense being maligned, the key is he can easily outscore most any player he's against so the weak defense argument against acquiring him is largely moot.

I suggested acquiring Capela some time back, and was lambasted due to his lack of outside shooting. As if he would not be a huge upgrade on Sochan, regardless of that.

[Knoxxx]

If we get Trae, Garland or a point guard of that archetype, I don't think we should have a scoring shooting guard next to them.
I'd rather look for the next Danny Green to be the primary point of attack defender and someone who doesn't need the ball, but is an elite off ball threat.

Champagnie has been showing signs of becoming a credible defender. I thought how he played against Doncic was pretty decent. I'd like to see him and Barlow get more minutes as this season winds down.

[TD 21]

By the time this trade would be completed, we’d know if the Raptors pick is conveying or not - if it is, that opens up this trade and alleviates your concerns of only having a mid/late FRP from SAC. Say we land the #5 pick and we get the TOR #7 pick. I don’t care enough about the difference between those picks to haggle over the SA pick versus the TOR pick.

Forget the concept against bidding against themselves for now. No one has bid anything, and we aren’t at the negotiating table, so we need not concern ourselves with negotiating against ourselves since this is all meaningless chatter. Just evaluate that deal in itself, not in relation to what you think the Spurs should try to do. Only ask yourself, if that is ATL’s final offer - do you do it?

I would do it, because I think that overall package is fair value. I also (my own personal opinion) think Trae will cost more than what people would like to hope. ATL is not currently in a situation where they must trade Trae, so their next best alternative is not what other teams could possible offer - its simply keeping him and adding two FRPs to their team and whatever other deals they can make to try and make their team better.

Now, if Trae asks for a trade, either in public or behind the scenes, then the calculus all changes and the Spurs gain maximum leverage. Until then, the Hawks likely do not view themselves as in debt of high picks… they probably view their immediate future as a slight improvement (because all teams think they will get better) over the play-in team they are now, and they likely aren’t overly concerned with the late-teens picks they owe the Spurs in 2025 and 2027 and the possibility they might downgrade their pick in 2026 (which they again, probably view as maybe dropping from the late teens to the early 20s at worst).

Are the Hawks being realistic in viewing it this way? Maybe… maybe not. But they aren’t exactly a basement dweller who feels they need to blow it up. They are a solid play-in team (even with Trae injured) who have two FRPs this year, some decent support pieces, and they probably think they can get better. We don’t have them over a barrel like SpursTalk.com likes to think we do.

I'm aware of that and was obviously operating in the hypothetical where the Craptors 1st doesn't convey this season. Of course, if it did and the gap was miniscule between the natural pick and it, that'd probably change things.

I'd be more open to swapping for the Hawks natural pick than the Kings pick if certain player(s) aren't available or attainable at the Spurs natural pick.

Impossible to divorce it from what I suspect the other offers will be because that would weigh heavily on my decision. I probably wouldn't do it though.

Again, I'm obviously operating in the hypothetical where Young, the Hawks or mutually they've agreed to seek a trade and once the cat is out of the bag, there's no going back. So in that scenario, yeah the Spurs will have leverage.

The asset that is more valuable is Trae Young. The Spurs aren’t going to get him for cheap just because no one else can offer more. The Hawks don’t need to trade him. We need Trae to ask to be traded, then we’ll be cooking with gas.

Already mostly answered this, but my proposal isn't cheap and Young, as arguably the most polarizing player playing the most saturated position in the league, almost certainly won't have as big of a market as a typical star.

[Knoxxx]

Even giving back ATL the picks they gave us would be acceptable, for Young. That means we basically loaned them Murray so we could tank to get Wemby. Then, we "upgraded" from Murray to Young for free.

I think though that Murray is the better overall player than Young, and would rather have him back. I do think this idea that we have ATL over a barrel and need to stick it to them is a bad idea. I understand though, that we want to see them fall into the lottery and keep a hold of their unprotected FRP next season. I'm thinking that Young or Murray are more of a "bird in hand" that would make a lot of sense for us, though. I'm sure this has been litigated quite a bit, but we don't know that ATL is lottery bound at all next season. They do seem like a team that needs to start thinking about a rebuild though, no doubt.

[scott]

ATL is 10th in the East, with everyone tanking behind. Not all the teams behind will keep tanking from next year on, nor 10th is what they were expecting after trading for Murray. They're on the treadmill, having badly regressed from last year and don't have enough assets to dramaticallty change that. Murray and Trae are the only guys who have real, big value, with a lot of holes to fill in their roster, not to mention bad locker room chemistry.They're not one elite role player away from contending.

I don't see any real future in their team, as such. They were a first round exit last year and might not even make it this season... The more time passes, the more DJM and Trae lose value.

At this point, all any of can say is… we’ll see. I will continue to contend that this board underestimates what it will take to land Trae because we assume ATL will want to blow it up (whether they actually should or not is another matter). Before the season, a lot of people here thought we’d be a play-in team. Outside of Wemby, Atlanta remains significantly better positioned to be a play-off team (and is in a weaker conference).

We’ll see! (Actually, I don’t think we will, because I think the Hawks will tell the Spurs what it will take and the Spurs will just move on)

[Knoxxx]

Murray is a baller, let's be real on that.

[poopbox]

People keep harping on Trae bad defense but most of his defensive metrics grade out higher than Branhim's and Wesley's

As bad as people think Trae is on defense he would actually be a step in the right direction for this team

Factor in the fact that he carries alot of the offensive load for Atlanta while Branhim and Wesly have no offensive responsibilities other than being wide open to shoot 3's and layups...and they are still as bad or worst than Trae defensively

[onechance87]

Murray is a baller, let's be real on that.

guy is a dog

[KobesAchilles]

If I am trading for Trae I would more than willing to be trade Devin for him. It saves us a pick and an unpopular opinion on Devin as the year has gone by is that he doesn’t fit the roster as much as I believed he did. He’s not talented enough (and never will be) to be our 2nd option on a contender. And I don’t think he fits much as a 3 guy either. If Devin wants to stay on this team he needs to stop focusing on offense and go back to his days of playing defense. The dude needs to be more like KCP instead of thinking he’s Kobe. And on this it’s KPC I would go after if we traded Devin for Trae. Dude fits seamlessly.

That being said PATFO will never trade Devin. And I don’t think they know how to build a contender anymore anyways. I have zero faith in our front office

[rankingtear]

People keep harping on Trae bad defense but most of his defensive metrics grade out higher than Branhim's and Wesley's

As bad as people think Trae is on defense he would actually be a step in the right direction for this team

Factor in the fact that he carries alot of the offensive load for Atlanta while Branhim and Wesly have no offensive responsibilities other than being wide open to shoot 3's and layups...and they are still as bad or worst than Trae defensively

They are not worse than that midget. Trae does not exist on defense. The only way he gets steals and charges cause they don't know he is there.

[Knoxxx]

Given the turds we are laying to end the season I’d think it’s safe to say nobody but the one is untouchable for the right deal.

[poopbox]

They are not worse than that midget. Trae does not exist on defense. The only way he gets steals and charges cause they don't know he is there.

None of our guards get steals or charges

[rankingtear]

None of our guards get steals or charges

That's my point, Trae is like a ninja to regular NBA players. They have to look at the floor to see if he is there.

[tbdog]

If I am trading for Trae I would more than willing to be trade Devin for him. It saves us a pick and an unpopular opinion on Devin as the year has gone by is that he doesn’t fit the roster as much as I believed he did. He’s not talented enough (and never will be) to be our 2nd option on a contender. And I don’t think he fits much as a 3 guy either. If Devin wants to stay on this team he needs to stop focusing on offense and go back to his days of playing defense. The dude needs to be more like KCP instead of thinking he’s Kobe. And on this it’s KPC I would go after if we traded Devin for Trae. Dude fits seamlessly.

That being said PATFO will never trade Devin. And I don’t think they know how to build a contender anymore anyways. I have zero faith in our front office

I have concerns that Vassell hasn't been able to put the ball on the floor to punish players when he gets run off the line. He isn't a disaster, but overall his playmaking is not of a guard level, although he seems to find Wemby a fair bit more recently. But 37% from three at 7attempts per 36. Those are nice numbers. And considering he can hold his own on D, that's a bonus. Add 23 years old on a declining contract, okay now you can see why Spurs won't add him to a trade.

[Knoxxx]

I have concerns that Vassell hasn't been able to put the ball on the floor to punish players when he gets run off the line. He isn't a disaster, but overall his playmaking is not of a guard level, although he seems to find Wemby a fair bit more recently. But 37% from three at 7attempts per 36. Those are nice numbers. And considering he can hold his own on D, that's a bonus. Add 23 years old on a declining contract, okay now you can see why Spurs won't add him to a trade.

You also highlight why he could be our most marketable asset.

[Tyronn Lue]

I have concerns that Vassell hasn't been able to put the ball on the floor to punish players when he gets run off the line. He isn't a disaster, but overall his playmaking is not of a guard level, although he seems to find Wemby a fair bit more recently. But 37% from three at 7attempts per 36. Those are nice numbers. And considering he can hold his own on D, that's a bonus. Add 23 years old on a declining contract, okay now you can see why Spurs won't add him to a trade.

Other than Victor, there's not a single player on the Spurs roster that presents a matchup problem to any team in the league.

[tbdog]

Other than Victor, there's not a single player on the Spurs roster that presents a matchup problem to any team in the league.

Vassell becomes a matchup problem if he is lower on the pecking order. Being number 2 is unlikely his peak. Even Middleton struggled with that role for years.

[baseline bum]

Curious if anyone has the stomach to trade Devin for Young? This has always been the theoretical line I've NOT been willing to cross. But I'm bored and its raining outside so I'll do it. ATL wants Devin plus all their picks/swaps back; Spurs say no. They meet in the middle.

The deal is Devin plus ATL '25 and '27 for Young, but those ATL picks turn into swaps that the Spurs control. So the Spurs will have swap rights 3 straight years with ATL, still giving them 2 theoretical bites each year at the Flag/Boozer apples. Any takers?

Curious if you see Devin as this foundational piece, a perfect #3 on a championship team? or maybe instead he's just a soon to be overpriced chucker and very expendable.

That's like a have your cake and eat it kind of deal. You get Trae Young while sending Atlanta into a tank and you still get control of their drafts for the next three years and all it costs you is Vassell and the worse of the 25 and 27 picks b/w the Spurs and Hawks? Sign me up in a second, but in this universe I might as well just trade Vassell for SGA, Collins for Ant, then sign 2005 Ginobili and 2014 Diaw for the vet min.

[exstatic]

You also highlight why he could be our most marketable asset.

Second most.

[scott]

If I am trading for Trae I would more than willing to be trade Devin for him. It saves us a pick and an unpopular opinion on Devin as the year has gone by is that he doesn’t fit the roster as much as I believed he did. He’s not talented enough (and never will be) to be our 2nd option on a contender. And I don’t think he fits much as a 3 guy either. If Devin wants to stay on this team he needs to stop focusing on offense and go back to his days of playing defense. The dude needs to be more like KCP instead of thinking he’s Kobe. And on this it’s KPC I would go after if we traded Devin for Trae. Dude fits seamlessly.

That being said PATFO will never trade Devin. And I don’t think they know how to build a contender anymore anyways. I have zero faith in our front office

Man, I second this big time. I feel like Devin is fool’s gold. He flashes good stuff consistently enough to think he could be it… but it’s all just fools gold. I’d rather someone else take the bait while we reap the rewards. Realizing that Devin has pretty much never made the big clutch play is what sealed it for me. We moved on from DJM because we didn’t feel like he was the star we needed, but he at least made some big time plays in the clutch from time to time. , even Keldon has. I can’t think of a single time Devin has hit that game tying/winning shot or big defensive stop.

And if there are some examples… I’d love to be wrong. I don’t count throwing a few lobs to Wemby early in OT as “big time clutch plays”

[LeBowen]

Man, I second this big time. I feel like Devin is fool’s gold. He flashes good stuff consistently enough to think he could be it… but it’s all just fools gold. I’d rather someone else take the bait while we reap the rewards. Realizing that Devin has pretty much never made the big clutch play is what sealed it for me. We moved on from DJM because we didn’t feel like he was the star we needed, but he at least made some big time plays in the clutch from time to time. , even Keldon has. I can’t think of a single time Devin has hit that game tying/winning shot or big defensive stop.

And if there are some examples… I’d love to be wrong. I don’t count throwing a few lobs to Wemby early in OT as “big time clutch plays”

It's not even about clutch plays for me, it's about him completely disappearing in a lot of games.
I'd rather have him chuck us out of the game than leave that duty to Keldon and Jeremy.

I also just realized Grayson Allen is a free agent this summer.
Most efficent 3pt shooter in the league this season on high volume. And a good defender. And doesn't need the ball.

I'd gladly get some assets back for Devin and get Allen who'd fit way better and earn less.

And with these recent developments, I'm more and more in line of dumping this entire roster.

My subjective, ideal scenario as of now:

1. Naz Reid for either one good first rounder or two weaker ones. Maybe one solid first and a swap. Anyhow, needs to be the priority. Wolves can also get anyone they want on the roster if they'd like.
2. Trae for Keldon+Collins and Hawks picks.
3. Grayson Allen as a free agent. Not many teams have cap space and not many teams need a shooting guard. Offer him 70/4 or 80/5.
4. Get rid of Devin's contract while teams see him as the only good player except Wemby on our roster. Find a 3-D wing coming our way. Maybe Brooklyn would take Devin in a deal for Bridges. I don't think Pelicans would take him in a deal for Jones/Murphy. Okoro is another, cheaper target I'd like.

Cap is at $141M the next season.
Not guaranteeing Devonte means Spurs have 34M in cap space.
Devin, Keldon and Collins are due 64M, trading them would leave us with 98M in cap space.

Trae, Reid and Bridges will make 80M combined.
18M left for Grayson Allen.

If someone wuold take Jeremy and/or Branham, that's another 5.5+3.2M in cap space.

Building around Wemby isn't rocket science, just get him an elite playmaker who's a triple threat and has gravity of his own, add 3-D players on the perimeter and we're in the playoffs right away...if Pop gets over himself, that is.
Trae-Grayson-SF-Naz-Wemby is an elite lineup if we can get Bridges or Herb for the SF position.

Jones as the backup PG. Barlow/Bassey as backup bigs, with Reid also being to take some minutes there.
SF we draft this year, Cissoko and Champagnie as backup perimeter players. Also Jeremy if noone takes him.