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I don't think Wiseman is a long-term fit for the Warriors. My guess is that he could be gotten for less than giving up Jak. That would be a dumb move by our FO.
With this contract, I would rather go for Jalen Smith than Wiseman. At least we know Smith is available to play.Hard to disagree tbh. I liked Wiseman coming out of college but he has missed so much developmental time due to injuries and other issues. He's even further behind the curve now and significantly more expensive...
There is a chance the Warriors decline that 4th year option ala Jalen Smith with Phoenix.
From Sporttrac. Look at the QO from year 5. Wowsers...
I don't think Wiseman is a long-term fit for the Warriors. My guess is that he could be gotten for less than giving up Jak. That would be a dumb move by our FO.
Primo and Vassell superstars? Neither has shown any indication of that. None.
If not trolling, someone is drinking some mighty strong kool aid.
1. I'd take Ivey over K. Murray. Offensive engine is obviously the most important singular skill, is still lacking here and he has a non zero chance to become one.
I'd most likely still retain Murray, but it would make the notion of trading him more palatable.
2. That package isn't getting into the top 3. I'd retain Vassell and reengage the Hornets on Poeltl for Washington Jr. and Jones. If they again turn down the request for their 1st, I'd offer to swap the Celtics one for it.
If they agree, I'd then offer the Spurs 1st, Washington Jr. and the Raptors 1st for 5 and something minor. If whoever is at 5 agrees, I'd select K. Murray. Hornets 1st is too much of an unknown to speculate on who'd be available.
3. BPA. Plus, another wing makes it more palatable to trade an in bent one.
4. In a move related to 2, I'd offer Hartenstein 3 years and if required, up to the MLE. He's 24, has had to scrap to become a rotation player and is similar to Poeltl, with better touch.
Starters: K. Murray, Johnson, Hartenstein, Vassell, Murray
Bench: McDermott, Richardson, Collins, T. Jones, Primo, K. Jones, Hornets 1st
Lonnie is liking tweets about his lack of playing time tonight. Looks like he was liking one of them during halftime. I’m over this diva. Maybe start reading books on how to be consistent or how to not settle for long jump shots.
No no man not trolling I'm a die hard fan. I just see the glass half full. There is much work to be done however with the right pieces there is a lot of promise here. Like tonight's game against the Pelicans they had some of there young dude out there but they had a mix with veterans like McCollum. If the Spurs had for exampl a Bradley beal out there tonight that game is different more than likely. Just can't wait to see how this offseason unfolds its key.
Adding a a proven player and a big dude like Mitc Robinson to a group like this makes a difference.
And no DD wasn't the guy we didn't need the midrange shooter guy we need a McCollum type guy sprinkled in. We have the ammo to add such a player. I'm not saying we are the warriors of 5 years ago but I firmly believe these kids have a shot.
also cut primo some slack and even Vassell ....not saying or dare comparing the two but what happened in the mambas first season. The kid has to want it and if he can be half the player it's a score. Vassell will get even better his shot is still inconsistent but you can see it will prove deadly. Sad when a fellow poster talking positively about our team has to be accused of drinking the kook aid or a troll. I see the inexperience inconsistency and mistakes but I also see talent assets cash and most importantly the potential.
And there you have it, boys and girls. This team needs a PF in the worst way. Put Keldon at the 3, knowing that he's very switchable, and it's a totally different ball game. It's not fair to have him playing as a full time 4. This roster literally does not have a PF. (Please, please don't anyone say a name that begins with Mc.) Even if they somehow swung getting Ayton (and I don't think it's a real possibility), they would still have a hole that other teams could drive a truck through.
If you put a really solid PF on this team, and a competent backup PF, the rest of the depth chart really starts to make sense. But if they call any name other than a PF on draft night, they'll be a play-in team again next year. Maybe in the top half, but still the play-in. They might anyway, because putting a rookie into a starting PF job is a tall order.
So... you want out of the box thinking? Draft both Sochan and Eason - one with the 9 pick, and the other using both of the other two first rounders and some small sweetener if necessary. I think that could be do-able. And then with the Lakers second round pick, a name I've been saving until this play-in scare was over... Andrew Nembhard from Gonzaga. Nembhard could be a really solid backup PG (I think he's ready). He's a scrappy defender, 6'5", and has a really high BBIQ and great court vision. He played 4 years of college, so there's not much chance that he turns into more than I've seen already, but that also means that he's seasoned enough to step in with a second unit instead of rotting in Austin. Put two PF's and a true backup PG on this squad, and let everyone else play where/how they belong, and this team would start making sense.
Don't like that option? Use the 9 pick for either Sochan or Eason, and one of the other firsts for Jabari Walker as the second PF. Sill sign Nembhard with the Lakers' second round pick. And use some of that cap space to steal Malik Monk away from the Lakers. The Lakers only have non-Bird rights, so the only way they could possibly keep Monk is to give him the MLE. That's 2/$13M for them, and the Spurs can do better. They could do all that and still have a first round pick to kick down the road. It would make the LWIV issue a lot less stressful. And it would give them a LOT of additional floor spacing and defense.
If you don't know about Nembhard, go look at some video. Everyone was so busy watching Suggs last year and Holmgren this year that he just stayed pretty much under the radar. He doesn't project as a star, but he's solid, and would bring a lot to the Spurs second unit.
Last edited by ZeusWillJudge; 04-14-2022 at 01:17 AM.
Let Lonnie go.
Draft one of Eason, Sochan, or Liddell(2nd or 3rd FRP).
Draft someone who can score.
Move any remaining picks for future assets.
Try to move Doug.
Keep Collins, might be tradeable along with JRich at the next deadline.
Free agency, I have no idea who to go after.
'' Primo and Vassell will be superstars Keldon a star and DJ is already a star and still improving."
You think its sad because a fellow poster thinks your view expressed in the quote above may be a bit far fetched? Its a message board and there would be no discussion if everyone agreed. Nothing wrong with being optimistic but your perception may not be reality. The Spurs do have some nice young pieces but everyone knows that the Spurs need to add a true star and fill some holes to take the next step.
Nothing wrong with being a die hard fan , as I have been a fan since 1973 when they moved here.
I would think that no player on the Spurs is untouchable at this point, should the right deal be available.
Wright's moves at the trade deadline gave me hope that we don't have deep-seated loyalty to moving any player if we have the opportunity to improve the team overall. He earned my full approval for the trade deadline moves that were done. Even moving someone like White who previously was considered a "core" piece in the rebuild was the correct decision, IMO.
I mostly agree with this till it becomes a culture thing. You need to blow my socks off to trade DJ. Not because he is a generational talent but he is a near generational leader. He brings so many intangibles that you won’t get back in a trade.
The same intangibles White never possessed.
You said the one thing I probably need to keep in mind. All that maneuvering was very un-PATFO-like. That's enough reason to at least think they might be more aggressive making a deal or two this offseason.
OK, big post time.
It starts with assessing what we have.
At PG DJ is never going to be a good enough 1st option, but he's a keeper, as he's a very good 3ed or a decent 2nd (in theory, he becomes a better version of JRue). Tre is also good and a keeper. If he develops a 3, he's a starter level player or a very high end backup. Both are on good contracts. So no need to get a PG.
At SG, l think Vassel is a starter+ level guy. Then it gets complicated. Primo is a keep unless someone blows us away with an offer, but I'm not sure what spot he takes in the rotation. Lonnie continues to develop, slow going but he's doing it and if he reaches his potential he's also a starter+ guy. Problem is that his inconsistencies make him iffy as a backup. J rich is also demonstrating starter level play. IMO, though, as an expiring (next year) vet who's not really on our timeline, he should be traded for a longer term asset. Weiskamp is fine as third string 2-3 on a 2-way contract. Langford - haven't seen enough to say anything. Overall, we have 2 definite keepers at this spot (Vassel, Primo) and I think we need to move on from at least 2 of the other 4 (J Rich, Langford, Lonnie, Weiskamp; I think J Rich will go as he will bring in the most value).
At SF, I think Keldon should play here. We haven't seen a lot of that, but depending on how it works, he's either starting or first backup here. But after him, we have holes. In theory, Vassel or Primo might move up, but I think they fit better as 2's (also Weiskamp, but for now he's at best a 3ed string guy). Neither KBD nor McDermott should be playing down (IMO). So we could use a 3 (or two).
At PF we have a great big hole. Keldon should be playing 3. KBD would be ok as a 3ed string. McDermott is a shooting specialist, and the rest of the roster isn't strong to hide the holes in his game. He should have some trade value on the market, as a vet with a recognized and valuable skill (shooting, esp at 6'8"). We need to get at least 1 PF and really should look for 2...
At C we have Poeltl, who's good value on the contract he's on. BUT, if we want to become a team with real championship aspirations, we need to upgrade. He's got strategic flaws: First, like Gobert, he can't punish a team that plays tiny ball against him (note that both he and Gobert are OK for C's on the perimeter). This weakness has been the Jazz's downfall in a couple of playoff series. Second, he gets his pushed in a by a good classical big man; see what J Val consistently does to him. Getting wrecked both by tiny ball and by classic ball, at least 1 weakness too many for a starter at a championship level - you will face teams that can play both those styles before you ring... Collins has been ok, and has not re-injured himself, so he gets to stay next year (espcially as there is a chance he will continue to improve given training camp and an offseason to continue recovery). Landale is an acceptable 3ed string.
Needs: PF, SF, C upgrade
Due to the NBA’s timeline, the draft becomes the next issue. We have our own lottery pick (#9), the raptors pick (20 or 21) and the Celtics pick (23-25). We also have the Lakers picks (#38) in the second round.
1) Pray we move up. If we do, we take whomever we can of the top 4 bigs ( Paolo, Chet, Jabari, Keegan in that order. Chet < Paolo because of body. Jabari > Keegan because of age). (As an aside, I don’t particularly like Ivey : he’s not creative enough with the ball to be worth a top 4 pick, IMO).
1A) I don’t’ think it will be possible to trade into the top 4.
2) Assuming we don’t, we will take whomever the FO thinks is BPA. Lots of guesswork at this point, with 8 teams picking before us and lots of weight given to character and interviews. There are some candidates for BPA that might be available that fit with our needs (Eason, Duren, Sochan, Williams), and others who don’t (Mathurin, Sharpe, Davis). Eason stands out statistically, but I have some character concerns (mind you, without such concerns, I doubt he drops to 9).
3) With the later picks, I suspect at least 1, maybe 2 will be draft and stash (assuming we make no deals). Several players I would be willing to do that with (Dieng, Jovic, Gui Santos, Gabriele Procida, Spagnolo, Kamagate, Samar), and not doubt the FO has there eye on others as well.
Free agency is the last part of the jigsaw. I am of the opinion that if you have max cap space, strategically, you should try to swing it around (but in a smart fashion). That means not being afraid to put a max in front of someone who’s worth it (and fits with what you’re doing). Of the possible FA’s, IMO, that’s Deandre Ayton (assuming we don’t draft Duren/Williams). I would do it, during the pre-signing moratorium, so it’s only locking up our cap space for 2 days after the moratorium. Me an Exstatic have gone round and round about will the Suns match… I’m not so sure they will (Sarver), and they might well agree to an S&T : Poeltl and J rich + ??? for Ayton (we can absorb the salary difference into cap). After that, get Ayton or no, a shot at Jalen Smith would be a decent idea – he’s looked pretty good at Indy, although I am not sure if he can play the 4 or is solely a 5. (We have the capspace if we S&T for Ayton)… Maybe try to get Claxton or Boucher on the cheap, but again, can either really play the 4 in this league?
Beyyond that though, I’m not sure there’s a single SF or PF FA that I really like … (Caleb and Cody Martin are both RFA’s and decent players, but they’re only 6’5”. There’s also Kyle Anderson, but …. And I’m not too sure he’d be willing to come back.) Hopefully the FO can find someone or one of the draft picks fits (or work some sort of a trade, but I think we’d end up paying too much due to the shortage of such players).
There's no possible way this is accurate. If you take the top 3 picks of the last 10 years, that's 30 players. 5% of 30 = 1.5. So according to your formula, there wouldn't even be 2 stars picked in the top 3 over the last decade? Joel Embiid, Jayson Taytum, Luka Doncic, Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, Bradley Beal, Karl Anthony-Towns, Ja Morant, Zion, Anthony Edwards, LaMelo Ball, Evan Mobley... that's 12 right there, plus borderline stars like Cade Cunningham, Deandre Ayton, Ben Simmons, Jaylen Brown. Embiid, Taytum, & Doncic alone prove that percentage isn't accurate-- those three by themselves are 10% of the top three picks of the last decade.
Last edited by R. DeMurre; 04-14-2022 at 01:58 PM.
Yeah I really think they only move DJ if he wants to and he would only want to get traded if the team stays in a treadmill of worse than mediocre play. Eventually he will tire out and will want a chance to compete in a good team before he’s too old to impact the game positively, but that’s a pessimistic take that assumes Spurs are incompetent to improve the team. It is premature right now, but there’s also a window with Murray and the team may not be tied to it. We shall see what happens.
Nembhard is Charmin soft and a huge reason they choked in the tourney.
Sochan yes absolutely.
Dk about Eason but if Aggie Hoops agrees that is good for me.
I'm not writing him off as a player, I just don't think comparing him to J O'neal is a good comparison. Portland was a franchise back then but they had a load of talented bigs. Golden State, on the other hand, is the opposite of a shirt franchise right now.
spurs have a demi-star in Murray, and otherwise a number of solid role player types. need at least one more demi-star before the team is actually compe ive
They’re 19 and 21. Maybe take a breath.
Not going to lie I think spurs still need to draft best player available and not worry about positional needs, Johnny Davis and Jalen Duren give me game changer vibes.
I agree on BPA. It feels like they will need to cycle through the Murray-White-Jak cohort completely, upgrading along the way, before they get their new contending core.
All told I think this was a “good” season in context. Spurs were never going to compete for a championship.
- Good draft capital acquired
- Murray Allstar
- Addressed White/Murray logjam
- internal growth from key players
- reached play-in while keeping top 10 pick
- Pop record
- restoring my confidence in FO
- Zollins gamble validated
Precisely, they're 19 and 21, it's whoever is calling them future superstars that needs to take a breath. They might develop nicely, even all stars if all planets are aligned... but you have to be smoking crack to declare them future superstars at this point in time with what we've seen.
I didn't compare Wiseman to Jermaine O'Neal as a player, I said that big men take longer to develop and cited him as one such example.
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