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Anybody else worried about Dillingham’s often awkward landings on jumpers and layups?
I’d be interested to see what a biomechanist thinks when breaking down the tape and watching him in a live setting.
Good points.
On getting Vets and team building, I'm on your side. Like sure, the ideal is that you find your core guys immediately, then you have a contending roster built around a trio for 15 years. That's unrealistic, and we're probably going to build around Wemby multiple times, as people age, move into / out of their primes and move in (and out) in free agency. In some cases, that'll take picks to acquire people, or overpaying in free agency (or getting lucky with someone like Donte DiVincezo...Jesus Christ that's a good contract).
I think your Middleton suggestion is good as that guy is awesome and he's the kind of culture builder that you want. There's a debate on what you'd be willing to give up, and what it'd take to get someone like that (basically, as in your post, squeeze into a 3 team deal), but the concept is good.
In about a year I think we'll be a free agent destination, but I don't think you want to wait and just hope you can make a splash, and the right type of good vet is worth giving up pi assets for even if they won't be part of the future le core.
The weakness of players defensively varies. Most players have weaknesses defensively, either being slow, or weak, or ball watchers off ball. Sheppard is definitely weak as a 1:1 defender, and a bit of a gambler, though he creates so many events that gambling is OK in the right cir stance. I'd be OK with Sheppard as his shooting is so good (and I think he has upside of being good enough with the ball to have Mark Price type upside), but do think it's pretty clear he'll be targeted, and you need good defensive infrastructure to cover him. I think the question if whether Wemby / Vassel / Sochan / future forward is (or will be) good enough to cover him, so the help gambling can work, and you get a piece that should fit with whatever the future build is.
Anybody else worried about Dillingham’s often awkward landings on jumpers and layups?
I’d be interested to see what a biomechanist thinks when breaking down the tape and watching him in a live setting.
You mean like Trae Young
I have only 5 pointers for this team to make the playoffs next season
1. Increase Wemby's minutes from 29mpg to 35mpg
2. Teach Victor on how avoid being a tunrover machine
3.Draft a good pg dillingham/topic
4. Learn how not to choke big leads especially in the 3rd Quarter
5 Improve basketball IQ
Iif the team acomplish these 5 pointer this offseason i guarantee ya'll this team will make the playoffs next season.
Victor would have monster responsibility on offense moving forward, you just have to make it easier for him on the other end. Victor does not have to cover for anybody he is your top guy on offense.
Huh? This is a team who wouldn't play Derrick and Dejounte together because Pop wanted to give Bryn Forbes minutes?
This is a team who wouldn't play Lonnie Walker because Pop wanted to let Patty, Marco, and Rudy gun and be terrible on defense when he knew they were all leaving next season? Consequently, and regardless of how you feel about it, Lonnie left literally within seconds of free agency.
This is a team that played Sochan at point TWO YEARS IN A ROW because the head coach thinks he's smarter than everyone else and has to prove it.
I cannot stress this enough, the Spurs FELL into Victor playing at center and being dominate. It wasn't anything that Pop actually set out to achieve. Sochan started at point so Victor could play the 4. Bassey got hurt and was out for the season. Collins hurt his ankle and was out. We were only down to two "bigs". Victor and Barlow. Barolow HAD to be the backup. Victor HAD to be the center. Sochan HAD to go back to power forward because Victor had to go to center. All of this happened 100% due to injury and not because the head coach thought it was the best thing to do for the team. All the way up until Collins got hurt it didn't matter how much we lost Pop was bent on playing Sochan at point. He literally set the franchise record for most consecutive losses doing it. That's how rigid the spurs are. The spurs are so rigid that even when they are about to set a franchise record for losing, they still won't switch it up, they will just march on doing the same dumb thing and they will set that franchise consecutive losses record.
For years were sending 1st round picks like Dejounte and Derrick to the g league, and then making them "earn" their minutes on the main club, which effectively only gave us 2 and a half years to know if our 1st round picks were actually good, where the rest of the league was just playing 1st round guys like SGA from day one, because they understood the faster we find out if a young player can play the faster we can trade an older veteran player for something more useful or to free up cap space. The spurs were doing dumb like having Bryn Forbes and Patty Mills on the same team. Two players who play the same way and do the same thing with the same limitations. That's stupid. That's redundant. No other team in the league was doing that dumb .
Imagine if when the 76ers drafted Maxey they told him you got to spend your rookie year in the g league. And then imagine in his second year they said you got to prove you better than Matisse Thybulle, instead of being like holy ing , this guy is pretty good. Tyrese, here is 35 minutes a game and here is the ball, figure out how to play with the big fella.
Bro, the point of the word "here" is to differentiate it from other elements. They aren't rigid on who their top options are. They've never been so under Pop. They went from Aldridge to DeRozan to Murray/White to Johnson to Vassell to Wemby in literally four years. Get on your soapbox about other things, but the Spurs do not mandate that certain players are top options year in and year out. That's basically the opposite of Pop's philosophy.
I still say trade both picks tbh. I like Chinook's idea of bringing in Middleton (don't see the Spurs wanting Portis but wouldn't hate him either) so I'd offer both and Keldon/Collins for Middleton + someone like Connaughton to add a vet presence then trade a group of their stockpiled seconds to get back into the first round to take someone who might fall (Collier?).
I doubt the PATFO would trade both FRP’s plus Keldon/Collins for Middleton. Then try to swing several SRP’s for Collier?? I’d expect them to stand pat, draft BPA’s, keep Tre at starting PG until whoever they drafted PG is ready, observe the players development as far as their chemistry with Wemby, and make moves by trade deadline, possibly a number of top caliber players could be available Mitc , Markkanen, Naz Reid, nobody knows who would try to opt out if they could force their way playing alongside Wemby for years. I’d expect Wemby would be so much better attracting even more players to have a chance to play alongside him. Then continue the big moves in Summer next year to complete the roster.
Jeesh, could you imagine throwing two FRPs at Middleton and his injury history?
“Dating back to the 2022 playoffs, when he sprained the MCL in his left knee in the first round, Middleton has been a regular on the injured list. He's dealt with a myriad of upper and lower body problems and has undergone two surgeries -- one on his wrist and another on his knee last summer. So far this season he has missed 13 games and played in both ends of a back-to-back just once.”
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/k...king-boot/amp/
I haven't see a rumour that Middleton might be on the block after another Bucks disappointing playoff series. I think Brook Lopez is likely mandatory to stay because he just fits Giannis like a glove. Other than Vassell, I don't see any players the Bucks would like. Johnson/Jones/Collins are likely our other best players that a winning team might add as a deep bench piece, but not as a replacement for Middleton. Johnson is the only one who would start out of those 3. I just don't see it. Unless for example Bucks get into talks with the Nets for Bridges, but Net's want more draft capital. Would they trade Middleton to the Spurs for Collins, Johnson and some draft capital, then move Lopez and draft capital for Bridges? Then use their own draft capital to go for Caruso. Thereby restructure their team with switch defence schemes and play Giannis more at center?
The only other scenario is if Bucks tear it down. They would require Giannis to request a trade and a fire sale begins.
Last edited by tbdog; 1 Week Ago at 06:55 AM.
Sheppard’s defense doesn’t rely on gambling for steals. He’s actually good at staying in front of his man and not constantly being moved from his position. Why knock Sheppard for not being switchable (not a matter of fact, by the way) and not Dillingham? Weird that we can say that Dillingham can be effective “if he’s pesky ala Mills” when Reed does that already. I don’t even dislike Rob, but this paragraph reeks of ignorance tbh.
Right on point. Your model is Wemby, and the possibilites/opportunites you have (or not) to improve the teams around him.
And people overract too easily, too quickly, with in mind MIN's model included selling the farm and the secondary home for a defensively great but otherwise limited 40M/year player who has yet to be all star as a Wolve...
Use the lotto to go for that special offensive player, anything else be damned. Focus on athleticism and defense everywhere else including FA
No. It may reek of having a different opinion than yours, but Sheppard's ability to defend elite point-guards due to questionable agility has been noted in other scouting reports. I don't claim to be a scout myself. I am not dedicated enough to the process nor so self-important as to think my random eye-test evaluation should trump those of folks who do put in the work. Maybe scouts are assuming a lack of physical ability due to racism. That's legit an issue for white players coming over to the NBA. But from what I read or watched, Sheppard looks to be a single-position defender who may struggled to defend that one position if he has to guard the point of attack against real offensive talent. My assumption is he's probably closer to DeJounte Murray that way in that he isn't a one-on-one guy but can be part of a disruptive defense. Issue is DJM is longer and more able to hide on 1-3 to let his off-ball skills shine. Sheppard isn't likely to be able to guard anyone else.
I don't dislike Sheppard, but as I said, his mix of strengths and weaknesses seem harder to account for when building a defense. Assuming the reports about his lack of agility against NBA athletes bears out to be true, you have to account for that if you don't want to waste the good things he does on that end. As I said in the earlier post, modern defense doesn't work in the way it did 10 years ago. Teams are not going to exploit a weak defender on the perimeter up and down the court if that player is willing to put in the effort. It's just not efficient for the opponent to bend their gameplan so far. It's far more important for the Spurs to have a scheme that the guys learn and follow than it is that everyone individually is a big, talented defender. Sheppard can be a part of that, but so could Dillingham, Collier, Castle, etc. That Dillingham's defensive issues are so more apparent makes them easier to account for rather than Sheppard's who might fail in a number of ways depending on the matchup. Drafting Rob for his offense and building a defensive role for him is an easier play than drafting Reed for his defense and hoping things carry over.
No one’s drafting Reed for his defense. That’s absurd. Rob’s advantages over Reed on offense doesn’t neglect Reed’s strengths on offense and his appeal on that end for teams to draft him. That’s where your stance on this crumbles. You apply a lot of things to Rob on the basis that Reed won’t provide enough value on offense that you focus on Reed’s defense while making all the excuses for Rob on defense.
It's pretty clear, I beliieve,for the way you've been talking about or mentioning Wemby for weeks that you don't to see any difference with him than any "rookie dude" but your entire argumentation is undermined by that.
No Vic isn't "a dude" but a generational player years ahead of the curve. Ignoring that is making a major mistake as far as team construction and timeline. You'll have at least top 10, maybe top 5, DPOTY and who knows MVP candidate, two way player next year on your team. As a FO, you have to build their strategy entirely on that reality, not losing time and focusing on develoing freaking Wesleys, Branhams, Sheppards or Dillys, (the later ones may not even be better than the former ones) Sochan at the point, or whatever... Its not about randos, it's about wemby.
Wth all due respect, no one godam cares about these guys. spurs have to start being compe ive and make the PO next year already. We have Wemby in front of us, and that's him we should be loking at first , not prospects who won't be here or matter that much, which probably include this year rookies.. There's a big chance spurs won't find a starting PG in this draft filled with meh prospects, not one in a winning team anyway, or players who will move that much the needle.
This team is a freaking desert around Wemby, bottom of the league for 2 years, not winning more with one more year of development and adding Vic. The time to add real, proven talent is now, not fantasizing on the future or Dillingham, Sheppard or Castle, who suddenly marvels at this or that, to really change anything to that state of fact. None of them, nor the current youngsters are gonna make this team better n the near future, if they ever do (they probably won't). And just adding a couple random vets won't do it either...
Where is that team going? What's the plan? Trusting the development program while Pop seemed caught by surprise this year by how bad the players were. Or is the plan striking gold again in the draft these next 2 years and contend in 5 years?
I believe they've been, and some people are, way too optimistic and wishfully thnking in general, and trustful in this franchise front office/coach who have been faling for years now then just lucked into Wemby. Now what are they gonna do with that?,
Last edited by JPB; 1 Week Ago at 09:58 AM.
I actually agree with this generally. Sheppard's absurd defensive metrics are really weird to me. So much so that I keep thinking of them as anomalies. He definitely had great hands, got deflections and steals. In certain cir stances he's extremely good, blowing up transition and sometimes on help defense. But then he wasn't anything close to a shutdown defender at all. Not even close, and it's impossible to think of him as becoming one in the NBA. Not only did he get wrecked trying to guard bigger, athletic players (Knecht, Gohlke), he would die on screens, totally poop out. He's a defensive playmaker on occasion, but even in college I never saw him transforming a game beyond a few possessions.
No mistake, Dillingham is an issue, but at least he's quick. That's something to possibly mold. Hopefully.
When talking about Reed Sheppard, I think about Austin Reaves, and how people on this board were salivating about trying to sign him for like 20 million last summer. It didn't happen last year but we could have a chance to draft a Reaves-like player this year. I'd go for it.
If he didn't just replace Trey, he could easily be his backup. Either way, it would improve the team by adding a quality player and dropping a second or third unit scrub. At least he can make a layup fairly easily.
Austin Reaves is 6'5 with a 6'6 wingspan
Sheppard is 6'3 with a 6'3 wingspan (at best bc datas from schools aren't reliable)
I like his shooting a lot but worry about his physical limitations even if he has shown a good defensive IQ
People are 100-percent drafting Reed for his defense. If he were just a small guard with a shot, he'd be much lower in the draft. He and Dillingham are very different players offensively. None of the scouting I've seen questions if Dillingham can be an NBA point guard. They question Sheppard's PG capacity constantly. The difference in that projection is why Sheppard's size and agility matter so much. Rob is in line to play the 1, so offensive fit isn't much of a question. If Reed is a small two, then his offensive fit is much more questionable. Like for example, I don't think most people would be okay with Jones/Sheppard/Vassell/Sochan/Wembanyama as the starting unit next year. But if Sheppard isn't a PG, then you can't just run him there or else you get the same issues the team had last year before Tre returned to the first unit. On the other hand, if you have Dillingham/Vassell/(wing)/Sochan Wembanyama, you can get more size on the court and maybe some defense.
If you believe Sheppard is a legit PG prospect, more power to you. I'm not predicting the future here. If the Spurs draft him, I want Reed to be the best he can be. However, it doesn't make sense to charge folks for being ignorant for deferring to scouting reports talking about the strong possibility that Sheppard has to play the two and the challenges that has for the team going forward. It's also not irrational to talk about how a PG with a bad defensive track record can be accounted for while a guy who's profile is riding so high because of his defense has a lot more uncertainty in what kind of value he can provide on that end against NBA compe ion.
I'm with Mr. Body and Chinook on this. Sheppard is probably AT LEAST ok-ish to good pretty much all accross the board, with shooting and iq being off the charts. But I fear he might be oversold on account of being so smart and picky within his role.
Like Mr. Body said, it wasn't rare watching him get beat one on one on defense, and that isn't going to get better in the NBA with more space and much better athletes; he just seems to fall short on some key tools required to be a great defender at the next level (length, lateral speed), at the College level he makes up for it being deceptively athletic and so damn smart, but to me he doesn't project to be a difference maker on that end at the NBA level.
On offense, he's undisputably a sniper who will murder any defender who dares to go under a screen, but doesn't look quick enough with the ball in his hands or skilled enough of a ball handler to project as an elite shot creator (like IMO Dillingham does) and doesn't have the burst or craftiness to get to the rim with ease (that Collier, Topic or even Castle show, with Dillingham rating better here as well).
The risk with Sheppard is he tops at 6'1" secondary ball handler and stationary shooter with decent (but not outstanding) defense (better team defender than man to man defender), and that isn't a valuable enough archetype to warrant that high a pick. That's probably too rough a label, he has ample chance to be better than that and I have no doubts he is going to be a very good and productive NBA player for a long time, but the question to me is just how high of a ceiling does he have.
Among the bunch of top potential PG prospects (which also includes Dillingham, Topic, Collier, and to a lesser extent Castle and McCain) he might be the one with the least obvious path towards s om, although it's very possible no one gets there and he might still end up the best of the lot.
All in all, at this point I'm more in the Dillingham camp, or maybe even Topic who has been growing on me as he's been falling elsewhere. I believe more in Topic as a playmaker that I did before, and given his FT% and the fact that he never needed to develop his 3 to be effective where he plays, he might not have focused on it thus having the highest potential for improvement there.
You could say I prefer more of a swing, but if you want to play it safer, then Sheppard is definitely a good choice.
Look, I know that you an individual and that you don't have some magical knowledge of every time I've had this exact same conversation with other folks. But come on. First, put away your straw man. No, Victor isn't just "a dude". No one said that. No one has to pretend like it was said. Second, Victor can be exceptional and have an accelerated timeline and all that and still be years away. Pop said that guys like Jokic and Jordan took seven or eight years to become true centerpieces. Believing the Spurs have three years of runway rather than eight IS acknowledging how special Wemby is. Pretending like last year was a failure because Wemby didn't play in the playoffs is not helpful to him or to the psyche's of the fans who push that idea.
This thread and others are us ruminating over the future of the team, which none of us know. You can choose to be pessimistic and vociferous about that pessimism if you wish. ST has had that element to its dialog for years. But not talking about that anxiety constantly isn't a sign of not being a Wemby fan or a "true Spurs fan" as one poster asserted previously. I've been extremely clear on how I want the team to proceed. So when I don't show distress at them being more conservative, it's not because I don't have a contradicting opinion. It's just that I'm not going to invest my mental well-being into how a billionaire and bunch of execs choose manage an entertainment product. Life's too short for that.
Sheppard would be a great pick for Charlotte or Houston, where he can play off a bigger lead guard like LaMello or Amen.
You know what else this did going from all those players? Losing more and more every year. And you know why they lost more and more every year as they transitioned from all of those players ever year? Cause Pop has an exceptionally rigid coaching style, offense, and basketball philosophy that when perfect players don't fit into it, Like Tony Timmy and Manu did, that no only can he not win, he will actually start losing at a rate that only 2 or 3 coaches can beat.
The fortunate thing for us, is that we actually did draft a guy who has "a team" and so some of the basketball decisions to be made in the future will be made solely to satisfy Victor and his team, Victor himself has a desire and passion to be great and as long as he is here will drag this franchise to greatness, and the media has such a desire to see him be great ( they ing voted him ROY unanimously and they voted him runner up for DPOY while playing on one of the 5 worst teams in the league) that they are going to fire up the propaganda machine to force players to want to play with Victor (reports already saying Lil Dilli wants to play in San Antonio). As long as Pop and Brian dont just stand around and themselves, even they can't this up. But they might stand around and themselves, so who knows.
Also you listed all those players like they a good thing. LMA never got out the second round until he got here. Demar team won a le as soon as he left and he got the bulls in purgatory. Keldon is a one trick pony coming off the bench now with his name in any trade rumor involving the spurs. Mentioning those players isn't a flex. Actually just reminds me how poor an eye we have had for talent the last several years until literally the most talent player in 25 years fell into our lap. And even after he did the basketball gods had to injure two other players on our team before we could put said player in the best position possible. Holy
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