Are Mavs as solid as Spurs? Don't count on it...

[JGrice02]

If the following sounds familiar it should. I have said it several times. I do think the author is a little hard on Dallas as Johnson is clearly an upgrade. As simple as it sounds, this guy does nothing more than point out the obvious. All I know is I'm glad the Spurs didn't pick up George! It should be a fun season...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5873026

The Dallas Mavericks added free agent forward Devean George to their minor makeover, giving them four new veterans on the roster, along with the dispatching of three others.

What this really means: The Mavs were within six minutes of taking a commanding 3-0 lead in the NBA Finals this season before falling into choke mode. So close were they, it figured to be an off-season of tweaking. But what exactly have they accomplished by brining in George, Anthony Johnson, Greg Buckner and Austin Croshere in lieu of Adrian Griffin, Darrell Armstrong, Marquis Daniels and Keith Van Horn? Not much. In fact, the crew brought in is amazingly comparable to the one let go.

Soon enough, we'll find out the ramifications of last year's collapse. Word out of Dallas is that Don Nelson is finally severing his ties from the organization rather than bilking owner Mark Cuban out of more money for hanging around. What we really need to know is how this all affected young coach Avery Johnson and his three key players — Dirk Nowitzki, Jason Terry and Josh Howard — with the way Cuban was so embarrassingly over the top in his profile as the Mavericks took the series lead. The moves in and of themselves didn't mean much, and they still should compete for the Western Conference title again — but are they as solid as the San Antonio Spurs? Don't count on it.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I guess he hasn't heard that the mavs are a younger deeper team than the spurs. the mavs are the deepest team in the history of the nba...or that the spurs are old and on the decline... :rolleyes

[SpursWillOwn]

yea and mavs have young and fresh legs for 48 minutes.. and they sure have clutch players..

[50 cent]

I'm sure all the retarded Mavs fans would disagree with this guy. The Mavs got deeper when it wasn't even possible to have a deeper team.

Whatever, they are a bunch of cock-chokers.

[LEONARD]

I have to disagree some...

Johnson is a huge upgrade over DA, and it allows Jet to pay more 2 guard.

KVH / Croshere = wash. Money move dumping Daniels salary. No problem with it...

Buckner / George slight inprovement over Griffin / Daniels. Buckner isn't as much of an offensive liability (despite the poor 3 pt shooting %) as Griffin was and he's a solid defender like Griffin. Daniels didn't fit Avery's style, regardless of what skillset you think he brought to the court. I hope he does well in IND. George is fine as a 12th man / veteran type player and nothing more...

I would expect Spurs fans to try to tear down the Mavs off-season, given the 10,000 posts around here this summer about the Spurs stellar moves... :lol

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I do agree with the writer that too much is being made of their offseason moves. While Johnson and Buckner are upgrades over Armstrong and Griffin I don't think it's a game changing improvement. My issue with all this hype is that people are acting like as though depth was somehow a weak spot that they've suddenly addressed. They've always been a deep team ever since Cuban came in and started throwing around the big bucks. Depth was not the issue that lost them four straight in the finals.

[leemajors]

I have to disagree some...

Johnson is a huge upgrade over DA, and it allows Jet to pay more 2 guard.

KVH / Croshere = wash. Money move dumping Daniels salary. No problem with it...

Buckner / George slight inprovement over Griffin / Daniels. Buckner isn't as much of an offensive liability (despite the poor 3 pt shooting %) as Griffin was and he's a solid defender like Griffin. Daniels didn't fit Avery's style, regardless of what skillset you think he brought to the court. I hope he does well in IND. George is fine as a 12th man / veteran type player and nothing more...

I would expect Spurs fans to try to tear down the Mavs off-season, given the 10,000 posts around here this summer about the Spurs stellar moves... :lol

i thought daniels was a much more versatile and quicker player than george, kinda a downgrade but does have more size i guess. like you said, slight improvement. offsets the slight size lost in buckner/griffin.

[JGrice02]

I have to disagree some...

Johnson is a huge upgrade over DA, and it allows Jet to pay more 2 guard.

KVH / Croshere = wash. Money move dumping Daniels salary. No problem with it...

Buckner / George slight inprovement over Griffin / Daniels. Buckner isn't as much of an offensive liability (despite the poor 3 pt shooting %) as Griffin was and he's a solid defender like Griffin. Daniels didn't fit Avery's style, regardless of what skillset you think he brought to the court. I hope he does well in IND. George is fine as a 12th man / veteran type player and nothing more...

I would expect Spurs fans to try to tear down the Mavs off-season, given the 10,000 posts around here this summer about the Spurs stellar moves... :lol

Johnsons is a nice uprade over Armstrong, no doubt. But he is the only real upgrade. Other players might be upgrades but we can't know that for sure until they prove it as they are clones of the players they replaced.

As for Johnson, his role in the playoffs will be minimal. His services will be most helpful during the regular season. The important thing is that the Mavs core players are back. I'm sure they will grow even more under Avery.

The moves they made this offseason will ensure a deep bench, something they already had. But come playoff time they will probably not make a big difference. The bench was not the problem in the Finals. Guys like Daniels kept the Mavs in the game. The problem was with the starters.

[samikeyp]

I would expect Spurs fans to try to tear down the Mavs off-season, given the 10,000 posts around here this summer about the Spurs stellar moves...

I would expect Leonard to lump all Spurs fans as being of one mindset. :rolleyes

[FromWayDowntown]

I would expect Leonard to lump all Spurs fans as being of one mindset. :rolleyes

mikey -- Leonard is here just to stir the pot. Leonard excels at provoking Spurs fans with little needling remarks; those efforts are frequently rewarded because those jabs regularly draw bombastic responses from those who try to prove Leonard wrong.

Other than attempting to draw such ire, Leonard's posts are fairly neutral.

:stirpot:

[samikeyp]

That is true...for the most part he is on. I just like needling back :)

[LEONARD]

i thought daniels was a much more versatile and quicker player than george, kinda a downgrade but does have more size i guess. like you said, slight improvement. offsets the slight size lost in buckner/griffin.

Daniels is definitely more versatile and quicker than George, but he just didn't fit...


I would expect Leonard to lump all Spurs fans as being of one mindset. :rolleyes

Not really...I just threw that in at the end due to this comment


I'm sure all the retarded Mavs fans would disagree with this guy. The Mavs got deeper when it wasn't even possible to have a deeper team. Whatever, they are a bunch of cock-chokers.

which does exactly what you just said... (lumping fans into one group)


mikey -- Leonard is here just to stir the pot. Leonard excels at provoking Spurs fans with little needling remarks; those efforts are frequently rewarded because those jabs regularly draw bombastic responses from those who try to prove Leonard wrong.

Other than attempting to draw such ire, Leonard's posts are fairly neutral.

:stirpot:

:fro

Who doesn't stir every now and then? :hat

[Supergirl]

I agree with the writer that all the changes don't actually change much for the Mavs - some positions are slightly upgraded (Buckner vs. KVH) some are slightly downgraded (Daniels and Griffin will be missed) but overall they're about the same - still young, athletic, and pretty deep. Still poised for the WCF.

But I think the problem is at their core - Mr. Nowitzki. He just doesn't have IT, that intangible thing that certain players have that wills them to win when they have the opportunity. Wade has it, Duncan has it, even Manu has it (despite that one bad decision that cost them a return to the Finals), Shaq has it, Alonzo has it, Chauncey Billups has it...

Dirk doesn't have it. And I don't think you can fabricate it this late in a career, if you don't have it. And that's what they lacked in the 2006 Finals.

[LEONARD]

But I think the problem is at their core - Mr. Nowitzki. He just doesn't have IT, that intangible thing that certain players have that wills them to win when they have the opportunity. Wade has it, Duncan has it, even Manu has it (despite that one bad decision that cost them a return to the Finals), Shaq has it, Alonzo has it, Chauncey Billups has it...

Dirk doesn't have it. And I don't think you can fabricate it this late in a career, if you don't have it. And that's what they lacked in the 2006 Finals.

Dirk was good in the Spurs series...
Good in the Suns series...
and not all that bad in the Heat series. People forget the ridiculous shot he hit in Game 5 due to Wade hitting the 2 FT's to win the game. He avg'd 27 / 12 in the playoffs...

He had a few off games here and there, but who doesn't? He takes more $hit than he deserves IMO...

[samikeyp]

Who does stir every now and then?

We didn't say you were the only stirrer. :)

[FromWayDowntown]

and not all that bad in the Heat series. People forget the ridiculous shot he hit in Game 5 due to Wade hitting the 2 FT's to win the game. He avg'd 27 / 12...

David Robinson had numbers like that in the 1995 WCF against the Rockets. I'm pretty sure most NBA fans outside of San Antonio remember tthat he wasn't "all that bad" in the Houston series.

[Supergirl]

What are Dirk's numbers during the 4th quarters of the games versus the Heat? Because that's what I'm talking about - his lack of clutchness.

[Mavs_man_41]

I really have to disagree. Obviously Anthony Johnson is a big upgrade over Darrel Armstrong. I think Buckner is an upgrade over Griffin because he isnt as big of a liability on offense and Griffin isnt as quick because of his back problems. Austin Croshere=KVH? Maybe so, we will have to see but either way i think his defense is quite a bit better than Van Horn's and i would take a better defensive player as a backup rather that a shooter. George wasnt really replacing anyone so he is just a nice addition as the 12th man. The biggest plus is probably the fact that we upgraded at least defensively and it seems Devean Harris might get his chance to start and Jason Terry might get to play more SG where he is more comfortable.

[Mavs_man_41]

^I almost forgot about Maurice Ager. I think he will at least make some kind of an impact even in limited minutes and he might turn out to be a great player later on.

[FromWayDowntown]

Gosh, Mavs man thinks the Mavs got better. I'm shocked.

[JamStone]

I think Dallas did have a good off-season and did get better.

Devean George is an upgrade if anything because he'll likely play more. AJ did not play Marquis Daniels. His only real PT was the game Stackhouse was suspended for. Devean is bigger and taller and more of a forward than Daniels, and in fact Devean at 6-8, 230 can play the PF spot in small ball. Daniels could not.

Greg Buckner essentially = Adrian Griffin except Buckner is younger and can his a three-pointer, so I think that is an upgrade.

Anthony Johnson is also an upgrade because Darrell Armstrong did not play. AJ appears to be someone who will get at least some spot minutes as Devin and JT will sometimes play the 2-guard, so getting production from the third string PG when Armstrong gave almost none has to be an upgrade.

I think Austin Croshere is actually a downgrade from Keith Van Horn. I think Dallas still needs some help at the reserve power forward spot.

I don't think Maurice Ager will get any meaningful playing time. I actually think he is a good fit for the Mavs, but I think there are too many people ahead of him, and I think he'll spend most of his time this season on the inactive list and on the D-League affiliate team.


Jason Terry >> Devin Harris >> Anthony Johnson
Greg Buckner >> Jerry Stackhouse >> Maurice Ager
Josh Howard >> Devean George
Dirk Nowitzki >> Austin Croshere >> Pops Mensah Bonsu
DeSagana Diop >> Erick Dampier >> DJ Mbenga


Hard to see where Mo Ager will get any playing time. I think the Mavs are better. How much better? Not sure. But, objectively speaking as a fan of neither team, I do think they are a better team than the Spurs.

[BigD1]

I'm sure all the retarded Mavs fans would disagree with this guy. The Mavs got deeper when it wasn't even possible to have a deeper team.

Whatever, they are a bunch of cock-chokers.One guy from FSW thinks SA is a more solid basketball team than Dallas and suddenly everyone on this board has a sense of new hope. Pleease. SA is still a top 3 team in the West and can very well win it this year but to say Dallas did nothing to upgrade the roster this year is absurd. Croshere and Pops are better than KVSucks and Powell. Buckner, George, and Ager is an upgrade over Daniels and Rawle. and certainly A.Johnson is an upgrade over DA. This writer is retarded and so is 50 cent with that retarded ass name.
To say Mavs couldn't have gotten deeper is ridiculous. The Mav's depth last year was overrated. When AJ decided to put Harris in the starting lineup, that certainly depleted the bench drastically. The only 2 players that were producing off the bench in the playoffs were Stack and Damp. Daniels was too turnover prone and couldn't throw a rock in the ocean, therefore didn't play a whole lot. DA...well need I say more, the guy is 37. KVsucked sucked...and besides he was hurt throughout 40% of the playoffs. Josh Powell,Mbenga and Rawlle Marshal didn't even play a second.
So yes, Dallas can get deeper and did get deeper in every position except center. They now have QUALITY backups with veteranship, playoff experience and most importantly, defensive savvy.

[BigD1]

Johnsons is a nice uprade over Armstrong, no doubt. But he is the only real upgrade. Other players might be upgrades but we can't know that for sure until they prove it as they are clones of the players they replaced.

As for Johnson, his role in the playoffs will be minimal. His services will be most helpful during the regular season. The important thing is that the Mavs core players are back. I'm sure they will grow even more under Avery.

The moves they made this offseason will ensure a deep bench, something they already had. But come playoff time they will probably not make a big difference. The bench was not the problem in the Finals. Guys like Daniels kept the Mavs in the game. The problem was with the starters.A.Johnson's role will be huge when A.J decides to put Harris/Terry together. Last year Dallas had no one off the bench at the pg to produce and be effective.

[BigD1]

Johnsons is a nice uprade over Armstrong, no doubt. But he is the only real upgrade. Other players might be upgrades but we can't know that for sure until they prove it as they are clones of the players they replaced.

As for Johnson, his role in the playoffs will be minimal. His services will be most helpful during the regular season. The important thing is that the Mavs core players are back. I'm sure they will grow even more under Avery.

The moves they made this offseason will ensure a deep bench, something they already had. But come playoff time they will probably not make a big difference. The bench was not the problem in the Finals. Guys like Daniels kept the Mavs in the game. The problem was with the starters.Guys like Daniels...?? What series were u watching? Daniels had one decent performance in game 6 when Dallas was all but down and out. Other than that, he didn't do shit.

[BigD1]

Dirk was good in the Spurs series...
Good in the Suns series...
and not all that bad in the Heat series. People forget the ridiculous shot he hit in Game 5 due to Wade hitting the 2 FT's to win the game. He avg'd 27 / 12...

He had a few off games here and there, but who doesn't? He takes more $hit than he deserves IMO...Not only that, but Dirk was getting doubled and triple that entire Heat series. Wade was not. Not to take anything away from Wade but when u have a Shaq that demands double teams in the low post on every possession...well life's a little easier.

[BigD1]

Gosh, Mavs man thinks the Mavs got better. I'm shocked.Gosh...I'm so shocked that Spur's fans actually believe this writer and agree with everthing he wrote.

[shaggy17]

Be very physical with the mavs, don't go small, stand up to their cheap shots in some kind of way along with having the talent and the Mavs fold fast and shit themselves not knowing how to handle the situation.

[Mavs_man_41]

Gosh, Mavs man thinks the Mavs got better. I'm shocked.

If thats all you got to say then just dont open your mouth at all. Either explain why im wrong or shut the fuck up.

[Mavs_man_41]

Be very physical with the mavs, don't go small, stand up to their cheap shots in some kind of way along with having the talent and the Mavs fold fast and shit themselves not knowing how to handle the situation.

Yea miami's physical play definately caught them off guard and was effective but dont count on it next year. They are proffessionals and im sure they will address the problem. Plus the spurs dont have anyone to get physical with them so it really doesnt worry me.

[Mavs_man_41]

All the sudden spurs fans have a new sense of hope and suddenly become experts on the mavs offseason, as if theyve been following all along.

[Mavs_man_41]

The only spurs fan in this thread whos opinion i respect his JGrice because at least he backs up his opinion, even though i disagree and think the mavs have upgraded at least defensively.

[Leetonidas]

The Mavs got better, yes, in small ways. The moves won't make much impact, except for Anthony Johnson playing PG. I think on paper, the Mavs are better than the Spurs, but in terms of actually playing, I'd give a very slight edge to the Spurs. Both teams are very close to being equal and we could be in store for one hell of a rivalry this year.

[Leetonidas]

All the sudden spurs fans have a new sense of hope and suddenly become experts on the mavs offseason, as if theyve been following all along.

When will you fucking realize you're on a SPURS FORUM dipshit? Most Spurs fans do not like the Mavs, why the fuck would we disagree and say the Mavs are better than us? You really have no fucking brains if you think you're going to get agreements from us dude.

[Mavs_man_41]

The Mavs got better, yes, in small ways. The moves won't make much impact, except for Anthony Johnson playing PG. I think on paper, the Mavs are better than the Spurs, but in terms of actually playing, I'd give a very slight edge to the Spurs. Both teams are very close to being equal and we could be in store for one hell of a rivalry this year.

Theres 2 spurs fans whose opinions i respect even though i slightly disagree. I think not only are they better on paper but they should be a little better on defense and have more toughness.

[shaggy17]

Yea miami's physical play definately caught them off guard and was effective but dont count on it next year. They are proffessionals and im sure they will address the problem. Plus the spurs dont have anyone to get physical with them so it really doesnt worry me.

:blah :blah :blah Miami>>>>Mavs till they prove they can beat em in a series. Elson and Butler will give Dirk some hard hits to the floor so prepared to be shocked if you expect us to give you layup drills next season. In fact dont be shocked if alot of teams get physical with you next season due to that being exposed. Duncan is also a physical player look at how he handled the fucking Pistons with 2 bad ankles. The Mavs arent a physical team and when you play that way with them all game it wears them down and they dont handle it well because they arent built like that. Call me what you want but that is the truth.

[Mavs_man_41]

When will you fucking realize you're on a SPURS FORUM dipshit? Most Spurs fans do not like the Mavs, why the fuck would we disagree and say the Mavs are better than us? You really have no fucking brains if you think you're going to get agreements from us dude.

So basically you are saying that even if the mavs are better you dont have the balls to admit it because you dont like them.

[Leetonidas]

Theres 2 spurs fans whose opinions i respect even though i slightly disagree. I think not only are they better on paper but they should be a little better on defense and have more toughness.

Don't get caught up with the harsh words though. I seriously don't understand why you guys think the Spurs fans will agree with you here. We're on a Spurs forum, not a Mavs forum, so please understand that. It annoys the shit outta me when fans from other teams expect us to say they're better than us.

[Mavs_man_41]

:blah :blah :blah Miami>>>>Mavs till they prove they can beat em in a series. Elson and Butler will give Dirk some hard hits to the floor so prepared to be shocked if you expect us to give you layup drills next season. In fact dont be shocked if alot of teams get physical with you next season due to that being exposed. Duncan is also a physical player look at how he handled the fucking Pistons with 2 bad ankles. The Mavs arent a physical team and when you play that way with them all game it wears them down and they dont handle it well because they arent built like that. Call me what you want but that is the truth.

Duncan is not physical, the only slightly physical guy on the spurs roster is Elson, and i don't see popovich being stupid enough to have him guard dirk.

[Leetonidas]

So basically you are saying that even if the mavs are better you dont have the balls to admit it because you dont like them.

I'm saying that because we're SPURS FANS on a SPURS FORUM, we're not going to go around saying teams are better than us. In our minds, we're the best team, just as is the same with the Mavs and their fans.

[Leetonidas]

Duncan is not physical, the only slightly physical guy on the spurs roster is Elson, and i don't see popovich being stupid enough to have him guard dirk.

I think when he said physical, he meant that Tim is tough and can take a beating, as can Manu. But they aren't players that are going to throw someone on the ground.

[Mavs_man_41]

Don't get caught up with the harsh words though. I seriously don't understand why you guys think the Spurs fans will agree with you here. We're on a Spurs forum, not a Mavs forum, so please understand that. It annoys the shit outta me when fans from other teams expect us to say they're better than us.

I'm not saying the mavs are better than the spurs. All i am saying is that i think the mavs upgraded defensively. I know it will be another close series next year if they do meet. It will most likely be a toss up like last year.

[E20]

As far as I see it, the Mavs have a better team then the Spurs.

[Mavs_man_41]

EssaySpur, u shouldnt be so quick to jump to conclusions. For gods sake all i said is i believe the mavs upgraded defensively, i mentioned nothing about them being better than the spurs. Like i said next years series, assuming they meet, will most likely come down to a game 7.

[Leetonidas]

I'm not saying the mavs are better than the spurs. All i am saying is that i think the mavs upgraded defensively. I know it will be another close series next year if they do meet. It will most likely be a toss up like last year.

The topic title makes your arguements seem like you're saying the Mavs are better than the Spurs, because it's "Are Mavs as solid as Spurs? Don't count on it..." and it looks as if you're trying to defend that the Mavs moves make them better than the Spurs

[JGrice02]

Guys like Daniels...?? What series were u watching? Daniels had one decent performance in game 6 when Dallas was all but down and out. Other than that, he didn't do shit.

He played well when they needed someone to step up in the Finals. Had they won the game he would have been the main reason. Daniels is the most talented/productive player to leave Dallas this offseason and no one they brought in matches his talent/production. Argue that Johnson is an upgrade and you will have my support. But argue that any other player is an upgrade and your argument will fall short. There simply isn't enough talent/production to differentiate the other players.

Aside from Johnson there were no major upgrades, period. And whoever replaces Daniels will be an immediate donwgrade. Only Ager has the potential to fill Daniels shoes, but not immediately. So with one upgrade, one downgrade, and a bunch of comparable additions, Dallas did a nice job of filling out their roster so they have another deep, talented team. But what else is new?

An upgraded roster? It may very well prove to be if Avery can make these parts work better than the old parts. But if you compare what they acquired with what they lost there is no real difference. Believe otherwise if you want, I suspect any blind Mavs fan will do just that.

Most non-bias media articles seem to agree that the Mavs did a good job replacing what they lost with comparable talent - eerily comparable when you think about it. Of course, one source did say that Devean George was the best low-key signing of this offseason. Anyone who says that loses immediate credibility in my mind, but I simply have little respect for George's game and find that his addition works against the theory that they upgraded their roster.

Aside from that source it has been nothing but the truth. Dallas upgraded at backup PG but will miss Daniels. Aside from those changes, they replaced what they lost with identical players. If that brings you great hope for the future then good for you. But I have news for you. Dallas didn't lose because they lacked depth. Even when their bench stepped up in the Finals they still lost. Why? Because their starters didn't step-up. If they win next season it will be because of their starters learned from last seasons collapse.

[Leetonidas]

EssaySpur, u shouldnt be so quick to jump to conclusions. For gods sake all i said is i believe the mavs upgraded defensively, i mentioned nothing about them being better than the spurs.

I guess I kinda got used to the Mav fans bad-mouthing us for the last 3 months and it all bothers me now

[Mavs_man_41]

JGrice i think you are forgetting that Buckner is a better shooter and less liability on offense than Griffin. Also Griffin is slowed because of a bad back, Buckner is much quicker. We are talking about slight upgrades here not major. I agree the only big upgrade was Anthony Johnson>Darrel Armstrong.

[Leetonidas]

JGrice i think you are forgetting that Buckner is a better shooter and less liability on offense than Griffin. Also Griffin is slowed because of a bad back, Buckner is much quicker. We are talking about slight upgrades here not major. I agree the only big upgrade was Anthony Johnson>Darrel Armstrong.

I think that Terry playing SG with Harris at the PG will give Buckner less time at the position though. Terry will probably start at SG, Harris at PG, and Johnson will backup Harris with Bucker backing up Terry. You're looking at a second lineup of Croshere, Dampier, Johnson, Buckner, and Stackhouse.

[Mavs_man_41]

I really dont see how losing Daniels can be a downgrade because he never played and wasnt relied on. He may be talented and have potential but its not like we are losing his services, we never used him to begin with.

[Mavs_man_41]

I think that Terry playing SG with Harris at the PG will give Buckner less time at the position though. Terry will probably start at SG, Harris at PG, and Johnson will backup Harris with Bucker backing up Terry. You're looking at a second lineup of Croshere, Dampier, Johnson, Buckner, and Stackhouse.

Doesnt sound too bad for a 2nd lineup to me. The main thing I am worried about is someone like Butler or Eric Williams being able to take turns on Dirk and allow Bowen to slow howard or someone else.

[shaggy17]

Duncan is not physical, the only slightly physical guy on the spurs roster is Elson, and i don't see popovich being stupid enough to have him guard dirk.

Pop if he learned from Riley would use Elson to knock the shit out of Dirk when he would try that flopping BS drive to the hoop. Doing that will take Dirk off of his game and weaken him bigtime. Also Duncan is a physical player otherwise he wouldnt be a superstar and have 3 titles. Outside of having great talent if you arent a physical player then you are an all-star at best who is no where near being great leader. Now Duncan may not be like ZO or Shaq in terms of knocking the shit out of you but he is a physical defender and offensive player still.

[Leetonidas]

Doesnt sound too bad for a 2nd lineup to me. The main thing I am worried about is someone like Butler or Eric Williams being able to take turns on Dirk and allow Bowen to slow howard or someone else.

I wouldn't worry about Butler on Dirk. Eric Williams, if the Spurs don't trade him next week, could be a possibility. Matt Bonner, if groomed to do so, may be able to do it as well (I doubt it though). Finley guarded Dirk the best though, so you never know. We'll probably see a rotation of defenders next year.

[Mavs_man_41]

Pop if he learned from Riley would use Elson to knock the shit out of Dirk when he would try that flopping BS drive to the hoop. Doing that will take Dirk off of his game and weaken him bigtime. Also Duncan is a physical player otherwise he wouldnt be a superstar and have 3 titles. Outside of having great talent if you arent a physical player then you are an all-star at best who is no where near being great leader. Now Duncan may not be like ZO or Shaq in terms of knocking the shit out of you but he is a physical defender and offensive player still.

The spurs are a classy organization no one is going to knock the shit out of Dirk. That would most likely lead to a fight and we might have another brawl like in Detroit, this time between the players. If you want to see the shit being knocked out of people watch wrestling i think ECW comes on tonight.

[Mavs_man_41]

Im sure you dont know very much about Dirk but he used to play rugby and im sure he has endured much harder hits. He will bounce back and be fine next year, the physical play just caught him off guard and he didnt do a good job adjusting.

[shaggy17]

The spurs are a classy organization no one is going to knock the shit out of Dirk. That would most likely lead to a fight and we might have another brawl like in Detroit, this time between the players. If you want to see the shit being knocked out of people watch wrestling i think ECW comes on tonight.

No thats the difference being being very dirty (trying to hurt/injure the player) and being just a very physical team who will make you pay the price for going to the hoop. By giving teams layups and giving them tacky fouls while doing is IMO is soft ball. And yes ECW comes on tonight on sci fi channel at 9pm

[Mavs_man_41]

Yes, knocking the shit out of Dirk as you put it is considered being very dirty. Shame on you.

[shaggy17]

Im sure you dont know very much about Dirk but he used to play rugby and im sure he has endured much harder hits. He will bounce back and be fine next year, the physical play just caught him off guard and he didnt do a good job adjusting.

He has never been able to handle it and being caught off guard and unable to adjust to it shows you arent that great. GREAT players adjust to those situations and dont stay off guard for too long especially in the biggest stage of them all...the NBA Finals! if he played rugby then I am shocked because all these years I have seen him in the NBA he has folded when teams put him on his ass hard.

[Mavs_man_41]

He has never been able to handle it and being caught off guard and unable to adjust to it shows you arent that great. GREAT players adjust to those situations and dont stay off guard for too long especially in the biggest stage of them all...the NBA Finals! if he played rugby then I am shocked because all these years I have seen him in the NBA he has folded when teams put him on his ass hard.

Can you give me one example other than the Heat series? Ive watched him since he was a rookie and don't recall.

[shaggy17]

Yes, knocking the shit out of Dirk as you put it is considered being very dirty. Shame on you.

No that is making him pay the price for driving. It is called physical/clean play. Pistons played like that,Miami played like that teams play like that cant really be called dirty. People who call that type of ball "dirty" are softies.

[shaggy17]

Can you give me one example other than the Heat series? Ive watched him since he was a rookie and don't recall.

2003 WCF sat out due to a "sore" knee even when the docs cleared him to play for game 6 but was too scared.

[Mavs_man_41]

No that is making him pay the price for driving. It is called physical/clean play. Pistons played like that,Miami played like that teams play like that cant really be called dirty. People who call that type of ball "dirty" are softies.

Hey im all for physical play thats how i get any playing time in basketball. I never intentionally knock the shit out of people. Ill give a hard foul to prevent the layup though. But you realize fouling a 90% ft shooter isnt very smart.

[shaggy17]

Hey im all for physical play thats how i get any playing time in basketball. I never intentionally knock the shit out of people. Ill give a hard foul to prevent the layup though. But you realize fouling a 90% ft shooter isnt very smart.

Actually it is because he knows those trips to the free throw line will come with some hard pain and he hates dealing with pain so he will drive less to the hoops because of it.

[Mavs_man_41]

2003 WCF sat out due to a "sore" knee even when the docs cleared him to play for game 6 but was too scared.

Get it right it was an ankle injury.

[shaggy17]

Get it right it was an ankle injury.

:blah :blah :blah whatever the fuck it was docs cleared his ass to play and he didnt.

[Mavs_man_41]

:blah :blah :blah whatever the fuck it was docs cleared his ass to play and he didnt.

How am i supposed to take you seriously you dont even know what your talking about.

[shaggy17]

How am i supposed to take you seriously I dont even know what I am talking about. Hell I think Dirk is a tough sob what the hell do I know?

Fixed :angel

[Mavs_man_41]

You respond to your mistake by editing my post. Thats funny. Seriously you dont know what you are talking about first of all it was an ankle injury and secondly no he was not cleared to play. You are all mixed up.

[shaggy17]

You respond to your mistake by editing my post. Thats funny. Seriously you dont know what you are talking about first of all it was an ankle injury and secondly no he was not cleared to play. You are all mixed up.

Funny Nelly and all the damn media along witn team doctors said that shit. Guess they were playing the CIA Game :rolleyes :rolleyes

[Man In Black]

Get it right it was an ankle injury.

You get it right. It was a knee injury. Ginobili banged his hip onto Dirk's and he HYPEREXTENDED it.

Just to show you:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/playoffs/2003-05-23-spurs-mavs-game-3_x.htm

Nowitzki went down with a sprained left knee. The Spurs controlled the game the rest of the way to defeat Dallas 96-83 and take a 2-1 lead in the Western Conference finals.

"The news is not good," Mavericks coach Don Nelson said. "His knee is very sore.


I didn't know Ankle was spelled K-N-E-E.

But you're always right...right mavsman41?
:fro

[Mavs_man_41]

I remembered Dirk struggling with ankle injuries that season but i guess i was wrong. Thats besides the point, my point to shaggy is that Dirk was not cleared to play.

[shaggy17]

I thought it was a knee injury but either way on what injury I thought it was, it was an injury that he could of easily came back from but he was too scared to return.

[shaggy17]

I remembered Dirk struggling with ankle injuries that season but i guess i was wrong. Thats besides the point, my point to shaggy is that Dirk was not cleared to play.

A fucking hyper-extended knee is enough to keep you out of 3 PLAYOFFS GAMES???? :lmao :lmao :lmao :rollin :rollin

[Mavs_man_41]

All throughout this thread shaggy is saying to knock the shit out of dirk and all kinds of childish immature things. I asked him to give me another situation where physical play really took dirk out of his game. And he replies with him missing the 2003 Western Conference finals, saying Dirk was cleared to play but was apparently "scared" according to shaggy. Regardless of what kind of injury, my point to shaggy is that Dirk was not cleared to play. Which by the way shaggy was never able to give me another instance where dirk wasnt able to handle physical play.

[Mavs_man_41]

A fucking hyper-extended knee is enough to keep you out of 3 PLAYOFFS GAMES???? :lmao :lmao :lmao :rollin :rollin

Obviously you have never had one. A serious hyper-extened knee will keep you from putting any weight on it for a couple of weeks.

[shaggy17]

Obviously you have never had one. A serious hyper-extened knee will keep you from putting any weight on it for a couple of weeks.

Yeah I bet that hurt much more then 2 fucking sprained ankles Duncan had to endure all playoffs a year ago :rolleyes :rolleyes. Plus if that injury was so damn serious, why the fuck did the doctors clear him to play for game 6?

[Mavs_man_41]

Yeah I bet that hurt much more then 2 fucking sprained ankles Duncan had to endure all playoffs a year ago :rolleyes :rolleyes. Plus if that injury was so damn serious, why the fuck did the doctors clear him to play for game 6?

The doctors never cleared him to play game 6. If you keep insisting this is true then show proof.

[Mavs_man_41]

Ok shaggy, Dirk is just a pussy he was too scared to play. :rolleyes

[Mavs_man_41]

Do you realize how rediculous that sounds? If he was really cleared to play and refused im pretty sure we all would have heard about it. Shit he would never be able to live that down im sure they would still talk about it today.

[shaggy17]

The doctors never cleared him to play game 6. If you keep insisting this is true then show proof.

Nelly said it himself so I guess the coach at the time was lying to the media about Dirks status! :rolleyes :rolleyes.The fact that I have to show proof on something that you should already know about on something like this shows you dont remember this or werent a mavs fan at the time. Only proof I could have on this was espn nba tonite after game 6 of the 03 WCF when Fred Carter and Trey Wingo talked about how Nelly was telling the press that the doctors cleared him to play but that he didnt feel confident in going out their. Fred talked about it for a few minutes . However that is on a dvd that I have :lol

[shaggy17]

Ok shaggy, Dirk is just a pussy he was too scared to play. :rolleyes


:tu :tu The truth hurts but glad you realize it now!

[Man In Black]

I guess you didn't hear about it?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2003/story?id=1560353


True enough. It's mostly about Nowitzki, and whether the German will indeed play after nearly a week to recuperate. Cleared by team doctors, Nowitzki still feels trepidation as he attempts to recover from the first knee injury of his career. One of Nowitzki's favorite warm-up routines -- exaggerated knee bends while practicing his jumper -- is still causing pain. Which raises the possibility Nowitzki would sit out one more game and pray for a deciding seventh, even though he says his lateral movement is fine.

[shaggy17]

Props to Men in black for being good at finding shit like this! :lol :lol I guess I am not spewing bs after all Mavsman! :rolleyes :rolleyes

[Mavs_man_41]

Im hesitant to believe anything shaggy says, as he also says that Dirk Nowitzki is not a superstar. But, fair enough, i guess youre right that he was cleared to play. But untill you have had an injury like that you have no room to talk. I have hyperextended my knee so bad that i wasnt physically able to put any weight on it. Because believe me i tried to get back up and play and it just felt weak and gave out.

[Man In Black]

Turth hurts. At the same time, people used to say that DaveRob's back wasn't hurt and then he took 2 epidural shots to the spine or that Tim wasn't hurt last year, despite chronic plantar fascitis which limited his lateral mobility, yet he still outscored Dirk for that series.
See stats below for conference semis:
http://www.nba.com/mavericks/stats/2005/conf_semi_stats.html
http://www.nba.com/spurs/stats/2005/conf_semi_stats.html

Tim outplayed Dirk.

[JGrice02]

JGrice i think you are forgetting that Buckner is a better shooter and less liability on offense than Griffin. Also Griffin is slowed because of a bad back, Buckner is much quicker. We are talking about slight upgrades here not major. I agree the only big upgrade was Anthony Johnson>Darrel Armstrong.

Buckner FG% - 43% last year
Griffin FG% - 48% last year

Griffin was very efficient last year with the Mavs. Though it should be noted that over the course of their careers Buckner has been more efficient on offense. But as was pointed out to you earlier, Griffin had a higher Efficiency Rating than Buckner. And neither player has been a model of good health. Griffin is probably a little better on defense and Buckner on offense. The stats really don't differentiate between the two. And that is the point.

If you assume Buckner will have a better season than he did last year AND Griffing will have a worse season than he did last year then you can say it is a slight upgrade. But that is assuming a lot for players going to new teams.



I really dont see how losing Daniels can be a downgrade because he never played and wasnt relied on. He may be talented and have potential but its not like we are losing his services, we never used him to begin with.

Daniels averaged 28 mpg, 10.2 ppg, 3.6 rps, and 2.8 apg. That can hardly be classified as a player who was barely used by Avery. That is, unless it is convenient for you to overlook his contributions and talent in a futile attempt to prove he will not be missed. Compare him to Buckner, George, even Ager if you want, and all three of them are downgrades. Ager may end up being an upgrade but at the start of the season there is not a player the Mavs brought in as talented or productive as Daniels.

That doens't mean it was not a good move trading away Daniels. Maybe other players fit into Avery's scheme better. Other players are certinaly more cost-efficient. But so far as production in the short term, losing Daniels is a downgrade on the bench that is offset by the upgrade at backup PG. Everything else is too close to distinguish. Dallas maintained a deep bench at a cheaper price. They upgraded their financial position. Whether they upgraded their players is yet to be seen.

[Mavs_man_41]

Buckner FG% - 43% last year
Griffin FG% - 48% last year

Griffin was very efficient last year with the Mavs. Though it should be noted that over the course of their careers Buckner has been more efficient on offense. But as was pointed out to you earlier, Griffin had a higher Efficiency Rating than Buckner. And neither player has been a model of good health. Griffin is probably a little better on defense and Buckner on offense. The stats really don't differentiate between the two. And that is the point.

If you assume Buckner will have a better season than he did last year AND Griffing will have a worse season than he did last year then you can say it is a slight upgrade. But that is assuming a lot for players going to new teams.




Daniels averaged 28 mpg, 10.2 ppg, 3.6 rps, and 2.8 apg. That can hardly be classified as a player who was barely used by Avery. That is, unless it is convenient for you to overlook his contributions and talent in a futile attempt to prove he will not be missed. Compare him to Buckner, George, even Ager if you want, and all three of them are downgrades. Ager may end up being an upgrade but at the start of the season there is not a player the Mavs brought in as talented or productive as Daniels.

That doens't mean it was not a good move trading away Daniels. Maybe other players fit into Avery's scheme better. Other players are certinaly more cost-efficient. But so far as production in the short term, losing Daniels is a downgrade on the bench that is offset by the upgrade at backup PG. Everything else is too close to distinguish. Dallas maintained a deep bench at a cheaper price. They upgraded their financial position. Whether they upgraded their players is yet to be seen.

When i say losing Daniels isnt a downgrade because we never used him i am talking about the playoffs. He averaged only 3.4ppg and 1.1rpg in 11.1 minutes during the playoffs. And those numbers are even lower in the WCF and NBA Finals. What i am saying is the mavericks playoff roster didnt downgrade because marquis was never used during the playoffs.

[JGrice02]

When i say losing Daniels isnt a downgrade because we never used him i am talking about the playoffs. He averaged only 3.4ppg and 1.1rpg in 11.1 minutes during the playoffs. And those numbers are even lower in the WCF and NBA Finals. What i am saying is the mavericks playoff roster didnt downgrade because marquis was never used during the playoffs.

I agree. The Mavs playoff roster certainly did not downgrade. I was referring to Daniels contributions in the regular season which were somewhat significant when you look at his stats. But if we are talking playoff roster and not regular season I'm not sure they upgraded either, even at the backup PG position. That all depends on how much time Johnson sees in the playoffs. If he plays at least 15-20 mpg then, yes, I think he will improve their playoff rotation. Other than Johnson I don't think anyone they added this offseason will bring much to the table in the playoffs. Most of them won't play much, if at all. But I could be wrong. Maybe Avery can get something out of these role players above what they have done in the past. I certainly don't put that past him.

[Mavs_man_41]

I really think Buckner will get playing time and make good contributions. Avery seems really high on him.

[SequSpur]

Raptors Front Line > Spurs Front Line

[intlspurshk]

I agree. The Mavs playoff roster certainly did not downgrade. I was referring to Daniels contributions in the regular season which were somewhat significant when you look at his stats. But if we are talking playoff roster and not regular season I'm not sure they upgraded either, even at the backup PG position. That all depends on how much time Johnson sees in the playoffs. If he plays at least 15-20 mpg then, yes, I think he will improve their playoff rotation. Other than Johnson I don't think anyone they added this offseason will bring much to the table in the playoffs. Most of them won't play much, if at all. But I could be wrong. Maybe Avery can get something out of these role players above what they have done in the past. I certainly don't put that past him.

Under the same token, SPURS playoff roster also improved significantly as they replaced two hardly used centers with two centers who will not sit on the bench for the whole game.

[mavsfan1000]

This article is a joke. Lmao at spurs fans actually agreeing with it.

[JGrice02]

This article is a joke. Lmao at spurs fans actually agreeing with it.

One would expect such a response from a Mavs fan. I suppose the articles written by Dallas media and fans praising their offseason moves are not jokes. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Only accept the opinions of those you agree with or want to believe. Otherwise, call their opinion a joke. Don't prove them wrong with a rational argument; just call them a joke. Its much easier and requires less brain power.

[LEONARD]

Wow...this thread turned to $hit...too funny!

and despite what happened in the '03 playoffs with his knee, Dirk is still pretty tough IMO. He takes a lot of shots and 99% of the time gets up unharmed...impressive for a gawky 7 footer with bad ankles... :fro

[FromWayDowntown]

Wow...this thread turned to $hit...too funny!

and despite what happened in the '03 playoffs with his knee, Dirk is still pretty tough IMO. He takes a lot of shots and 99% of the time gets up unharmed...impressive for a gawky 7 footer with bad ankles . . .

. . . and a penchant for elaboration.

:)

[Doug Collins]

Hey im all for physical play thats how i get any playing time in basketball. I never intentionally knock the shit out of people. Ill give a hard foul to prevent the layup though. But you realize fouling a 90% ft shooter isnt very smart.


It is when it happens in crunchtime of the NBA Finals aka chokefest. :elephant :elephant :elephant







Of course he did hit his free throws against the spurs :drunk

[mavsfan1000]

One would expect such a response from a Mavs fan. I suppose the articles written by Dallas media and fans praising their offseason moves are not jokes. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Only accept the opinions of those you agree with or want to believe. Otherwise, call their opinion a joke. Don't prove them wrong with a rational argument; just call them a joke. Its much easier and requires less brain power.
It is a joke when you break it down. This guy is obviously letting his hate for the mavs blind him.
Anthony Johnson>DA
Croshere>Van Horn
Buckner>Griffin
Ager=Daniels. At least Ager can shoot which is why he is a better fit than Daniels.

[FromWayDowntown]

It is a joke when you break it down. This guy is obviously letting his hate for the mavs blind him.

I guess because hatred of the Mavericks is the only possible explanation for why anyone would look at the Mavs off-season and think anything other than that the Mavericks will run-away with the division, conference, and league.

I mean think about how obvious Kahn's hatred will be when he picks the Mavericks to win only 60 games this year. How blinded by hatred can one man be?!?! And let's not even talk about how obvious it will be if he picks the Spurs to retain their division title!! Talk about hatred leading a man to absurd conclusions!!

[mavsfan1000]

I guess because hatred of the Mavericks is the only possible explanation for why anyone would look at the Mavs off-season and think anything other than that the Mavericks will run-away with the division, conference, and league.

I mean think about how obvious Kahn's hatred will be when he picks the Mavericks to win only 60 games this year. How blinded by hatred can one man be?!?! And let's not even talk about how obvious it will be if he picks the Spurs to retain their division title!! Talk about hatred leading a man to absurd conclusions!!
Well not saying that Johnson isn't a big improvement over a 40 year old Armstrong or Croshere isn't an improvement over Van Suck than yes he is blinded by hatred.

[Leetonidas]

Well not saying that Johnson isn't a big improvement over a 40 year old Armstrong or Croshere isn't an improvement over Van Suck than yes he is blinded by hatred.

Van Suck? Without Keith, the Spurs are the back-to-back champs right now. He saved the Mav's asses in a couple games with his three point shooting.

[Mavs_man_41]

His defense screwed us more than his shooting ever helped us......not to mention his lack of hustle, rebounding, decision making, shot selection, ball handling, the list can go on and on.

[FromWayDowntown]

His defense screwed us more than his shooting ever helped us......not to mention his lack of hustle, rebounding, decision making, shot selection, ball handling, the list can go on and on.

And yet, if Van Horn doesn't drain 2 huge three-pointers late in the 3rd quarter of Game 7, the Mavericks might very well have gone home after 2 rounds.

[Mavs_man_41]

And yet, if Van Horn doesn't drain 2 huge three-pointers late in the 3rd quarter of Game 7, the Mavericks might very well have gone home after 2 rounds.

Yet if he wouldnt have given up dozens of points off of his terrible defense, turnovers, and poor shot selection it would have had the same outcome.

[Mavs_man_41]

Van Horn sucks. If he were a spur you would know what i'm talking about. No basketball IQ at all.

[mavsfan1000]

Van Horn's defense was pitiful against San Antonio. Yes he hit big 3's in game 7 but was real quick to giving points back up on the other side. With Van Horn on defense you are playing 4 on 5.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Van Horn sucks. If he were a spur you would know what i'm talking about. No basketball IQ at all.

I won't argue that fact, but it's tough to justify calling one of the fewer players in the league that are whiter, less athletic, and more injury prone than KVH an upgrade. Even if Croshere brought something to the table that Van Horn didn't, he's only going to be bringing it for about 40 games a year.

[Mavs_man_41]

I won't argue that fact, but it's tough to justify calling one of the fewer players in the league that are whiter, less athletic, and more injury prone than KVH an upgrade. Even if Croshere brought something to the table that Van Horn didn't, he's only going to be bringing it for about 40 games a year.

He's not slower and less athletic. That's just not humanly possible. Someone confined to a wheel chair is quicker than Van Horn.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

He's not slower and less athletic. That's just not humanly possible. Someone confined to a wheel chair is quicker than Van Horn.

:lol I'm pretty sure that Croshere is playing from a stretcher these days.

[Mavs_man_41]

Scratch that i think Van Horn is playing from his death bed.

[Leetonidas]

Van Horn's defense was pitiful against San Antonio. Yes he hit big 3's in game 7 but was real quick to giving points back up on the other side. With Van Horn on defense you are playing 4 on 5.

Are you kidding? Except for DeSagana Diop in OT of Game 7, everyone guarding Tim Duncan got destroyed.

[mavsfan1000]

Are you kidding? Except for DeSagana Diop in OT of Game 7, everyone guarding Tim Duncan got destroyed.
Duncan did not destroy Dampier but with Van Horn out there you are guaranteeing Duncan a good game. Duncan did well against Dampier but Dampier made Duncan work for his shots and earned them.

[shaggy17]

Van Horn=A star who never truly got his chance to shine :depressed. The guy has GREAT talent and if somebody gives him a fair chance to shine and be a star he will deliver. Nets,Sixers,Knicks,Bucks and now the Mavs didnt let Van Horn rise as the star that he is and the next team who gets him could bite all those teams in the ass as they will live with regret of letting him go. Maybe the next team thats lands this badass uses him the right way that allows him to be on his first ever all star team this season! He is too great of a ball player to be on the spurs..no place to shine but maybe the Hawks or the Bobcats could be his new home that Finally lets him be the star that he can be :spin

[Mavs_man_41]

Dude no one can guard duncan but u have problems when the opposing teams back up PF is wearing you out. Van Horn cant guard Duncan or anyone else in the league.

[JGrice02]

Duncan did not destroy Dampier...

You just lost all credibility with this quote... though I'm not sure you had any to begin with. Doesn't get much better than that. Thanks for the good laugh.


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[Mavs_man_41]

You just lost all credibility with this quote... though I'm not sure you had any to being with. Doesn't get much better than that. Thanks for the good laugh.


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Dampier doesnt defend well against power forwards because hes too slow. Diop was the best bet but he couldnt stay out of foul trouble.

[Ocotillo]

Van Horn=A star who never truly got his chance to shine :depressed. The guy has GREAT talent and if somebody gives him a fair chance to shine and be a star he will deliver. Nets,Sixers,Knicks,Bucks and now the Mavs didnt let Van Horn rise as the star that he is and the next team who gets him could bite all those teams in the ass as they will live with regret of letting him go. Maybe the next team thats lands this badass uses him the right way that allows him to be on his first ever all star team this season! He is too great of a ball player to be on the spurs..no place to shine but maybe the Hawks or the Bobcats could be his new home that Finally lets him be the star that he can be :spin

So sayeth Shaggy Van Horn, Keith's kid brother....

[JGrice02]

It is a joke when you break it down....
Croshere>Van Horn
Buckner>Griffin
Ager=Daniels. At least Ager can shoot which is why he is a better fit than Daniels.

Sorry, I forgot about this one. Almost as funny as Duncan not destroying Dampier. I'm just going to come here when I'm having a bad day. I've never seen such lunacy before. It just makes me laugh. Croshere is better than Van Horn? Ager is equal to Daniels? Wow, these opinions are truly the mark of an ignorant and ego-bruised Mavs fan. It doesn't get any better than this. Pure entertainment!

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[GrandeDavid]

The Spurs are winning the championship next season, and that is not debatable with me. Debate this assertion amongst yourselves if you will, but to me its already signed, sealed and delivered....assuming the Spurs stay healthy. ;)

So, to echo the author's sentiments, no, I don't think the Mavs are as solid as the Spurs.

[JGrice02]

Dampier doesnt defend well against power forwards because hes too slow. Diop was the best bet but he couldnt stay out of foul trouble.

I agree, Diop does a better job guarding Duncan, relative to Dampier.

[Mavs_man_41]

The Spurs are winning the championship next season, and that is not debatable with me. Debate this assertion amongst yourselves if you will, but to me its already signed, sealed and delivered....assuming the Spurs stay healthy. ;)

So, to echo the author's sentiments, no, I don't think the Mavs are as solid as the Spurs.

Lol i guess its said and done already, huh?

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Ager=Daniels. At least Ager can shoot which is why he is a better fit than Daniels.
How the fuck does Ager=Daniels when the kid has yet to play a single NBA game? Your fucking Breakdown is a joke. And also the fact that you think Duncan didnt man handle Damp is a joke when Tim was getting pretty much any shot he wanted against him.

[mavsfan1000]

poor spurs

[JGrice02]

poor spurs

While you may feel sorry for the Spurs, I feel sorry for you. But I will admit you are good for comedic relief. I thank you for that and wish you the best on finishing up middle school.

[confined]

He's not slower and less athletic. That's just not humanly possible. Someone confined to a wheel chair is quicker than Van Horn.

haha my username is in this quote haha...o god

[SenorSpur]

Personally, I'm concerned about the one area that the Spurs were very weak in all of last season - REBOUNDING. This weakness, was evident in several regular season games (on the road vs PHI and MIL) and was further magnified during the Dallas series, as they outrebounded the Spurs in virtually every game. To date, I'm not sure that the Spurs have properly addressed the issue.

While I still feel the Spurs will outlast the Mavs next season, this weakness worries me just the same. I sure hope they have at least one more transaction left in them.

[Louis]

If the following sounds familiar it should. I have said it several times. I do think the author is a little hard on Dallas as Johnson is clearly an upgrade. As simple as it sounds, this guy does nothing more than point out the obvious. All I know is I'm glad the Spurs didn't pick up George! It should be a fun season...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5873026

The Dallas Mavericks added free agent forward Devean George to their minor makeover, giving them four new veterans on the roster, along with the dispatching of three others.

What this really means: The Mavs were within six minutes of taking a commanding 3-0 lead in the NBA Finals this season before falling into choke mode. So close were they, it figured to be an off-season of tweaking. But what exactly have they accomplished by brining in George, Anthony Johnson, Greg Buckner and Austin Croshere in lieu of Adrian Griffin, Darrell Armstrong, Marquis Daniels and Keith Van Horn? Not much. In fact, the crew brought in is amazingly comparable to the one let go.

Soon enough, we'll find out the ramifications of last year's collapse. Word out of Dallas is that Don Nelson is finally severing his ties from the organization rather than bilking owner Mark Cuban out of more money for hanging around. What we really need to know is how this all affected young coach Avery Johnson and his three key players — Dirk Nowitzki, Jason Terry and Josh Howard — with the way Cuban was so embarrassingly over the top in his profile as the Mavericks took the series lead. The moves in and of themselves didn't mean much, and they still should compete for the Western Conference title again — but are they as solid as the San Antonio Spurs? Don't count on it.

They are solid and even BETTER than the Spurs...

Nice try...

[Leetonidas]

They are solid and even BETTER than the Spurs...

Nice try...

Are you sure you're a Rockets fan? Get of the Mavs' nuts. :lol

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Are you sure you're a Rockets fan? Get of the Mavs' nuts. :lol
:lmao I think hes some little kid who really is a mavs fan. And hes scared to put the mavs as his favorite team. Its hard to believe that a rocket fan would suck so much mav cock, and not trump his own team.

[BigD1]

Are you kidding? Except for DeSagana Diop in OT of Game 7, everyone guarding Tim Duncan got destroyed.True!

[Doug Collins]

haha my username is in this quote haha...o god

Wow. We're all just itchin to post, bring on the regular season already.

[Gino20]

I have to agree with this article. The Mavs had a good offseason, but it was not great. Their best offseason acquistion was Anthony Johnson. It appears he is a good player when he is given mins and starts. I remember someone stating that he really only did good when he started games. After reflecting on this statement, I believe it is true to a certain degree. As for the other offseason moves, I honestly dont think they are that great. When I saw George play for the Lakers, he seemed more of a liability then an asset. The guy is only good when he is on, but is usually banged up with injuries. As for Buckner, many people think is a very good defender. From my perspective, he is a decent defender. Croshere (i have no idea how to spell it), he equals KVH. Need i say more? Ager is a good player, but probably wont see much minutes when it counts. I think the Spurs had a quiet offseason with some pretty offseason moves. I love the physical play of Elson and his ability to run the court. I think Butler can prove to be a big signing. Vaughn, is a good defender and thats about it lol! The best thing for the Mavs is that they have another year under their belt. However, they wont catch people by surprise anymore with their style of play. People forget that we also have a pretty good bench. Finley, Horry, Barry, Bonner, Beno. Some maybe old, but very experienced. It should be a good season for both teams. However, with a healthy Duncan, Ginobili, Parker I give the Spurs a slight nod. Im not stating this because I am a Spurs fan. Its my honest opinion.

[Gino20]

Personally, I'm concerned about the one area that the Spurs were very weak in all of last season - REBOUNDING. This weakness, was evident in several regular season games (on the road vs PHI and MIL) and was further magnified during the Dallas series, as they outrebounded the Spurs in virtually every game. To date, I'm not sure that the Spurs have properly addressed the issue.

While I still feel the Spurs will outlast the Mavs next season, this weakness worries me just the same. I sure hope they have at least one more transaction left in them.


I also agree. Maybe they can address it soon.