Duncan the new C-Webb?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Look at my handle before you accuse me of "hating" on Tim.

I remember reading an article that was posted here just the other day (from FullSportPress) that called out Duncan, and I remembered thinking..."yeah I was beginning to feel that way too..." Mainly the article focused on his new lack of explosivness and his movement away from the low post and out to the top of the key. It lambasted him for taking little jumphooks instead of using the cunning and quickness he has for low post moves, you remember those right the trade mark of Duncan's domincance? I don't, hell I cant remember the last time I have seen him down there doing his Hakeem Olijuwan impression, the only thing I remember about Duncan is the new C-Webb impresonation he seems to love. Jump shots from the top of the key. Rasho lay-ups at the hoop? An over-reliance on his bank shot? What's worse is that he is being mauled for rebounds, and losing battles down there...to Nick Collison? Jerome James? Reggie Evans even? When did the Duncan of old fail to pull down 20 rebounds in a critical playoff game? Have you ever heard of Duncan having a field goal percentage of .482 for a series, let alone the playoffs?

What happened to his MVP form, his dominance, his unguardability 1 on 1? Ginobili has been the MVP of our team so far in the playoffs.... that's not going to win us a championship. Manu isn't LBJ or Kobe or MJ, he can be slowed down, and if we relly on him.... we're going to be elliminated very soon. The old Duncan was un-stoppable...you could never slow him down with out a triple team.... and you still would get beat about half the time with one.

Maybe one day he will get his old form back, but this isn't the story of the 2005 playoffs... this is the story of every game since the 2004 season... Duncan lost his domincance, lost his game, and began morphing into a slightly better rebounding version of C-Webb, he certainly hasn't been the MVP Tim Duncan this season, and he is no where near it right now, the scariest thing in the world for a Spurs fan.





Scroll down to read the article I refrenced and based this thread on if you have the desire to rant and rave without any intelligent angle to bring to the discourse.

[Marcus Bryant]

Tim Duncan has made the superlative appear ordinary during his eight seasons with the San Antonio Spurs. Superlative to the point that Spurs fans are levelling the highest insult possible in the Association by likening him to Chris Webber now.

Chris Webber didn't a win a championship, let alone two, son.


http://www.muslimwakeup.com/archives/images/welch-mccarthy-300.jpg

Have you no decency, sir?

[timvp]

Chris Webber doesn't belong in the same sentence ... make that paragraph ... make that book ... f' it, CWeb doesn't belong in the same language as Tim Duncan.

:wtf

[MadDog73]

Ouch. This bashing of Tim is harsh. 35 pt game not good enough?

20 pt, 14 reb game lacking? (no Sonic player got double digit rebounding last night).

I just don't see where the Hate is coming from....

[CosmicCowboy]

Tim had a series of ankle sprains this spring. Shit happens.

now STFU about comparing him to Webber...

[SpursChampsIII]

No comparison between Duncan and C-Web. Duncan is a winner...C-Web is a loser. Duncan is worn down due to all the basketball he has played for the past 2 years, almost continuous. He is worn out, but now is the time he needs to log major minutes.

[Rick Von Braun]

Duncan is an increadible player. His efficiency has dropped a little, but he is still top 5 in the league.

If both Duncan and Manu play good games, the Spurs are very tough to defeat. If Duncan, Manu, and TP all have good games, they are virtually unbeatable.

[baseline bum]

Yeah... Webber would have hit that shot on Shaq in game 5.

[Jimcs50]

TD can not shoot 3s like CWeb can.

[MadDog73]

In case anyone had any doubts on the matter:

Timmy is ranked 8 in Playoff PPG. Webber? Way down at 22.

Rebounds? Duncan is 6th. Webber? 38th. :lol

Blocked Shots? Duncan is 3rd. :elephant Webber is not even on the list.

(all from nba.com: http://www.nba.com/statistics/2004/default_post_season_leaders/LeagueLeadersBPGQuery.html?topic=0&stat=21)

Next time, think before you post.

Tim is probably the best single player in terms of doing it all (defense AND offense) in the playoffs.

[Louae]

An over-reliance on his bank shot? What's worse is that he is being mauled for rebounds, and losing battles down there...to Nick Collison? Jerome James? Reggie Evans even? When did the Duncan of old fail to pull down 20 rebounds in a critical playoff game? Have you ever heard of Duncan having a field goal percentage of .482 for a series, let alone the playoffs?

What happened to his MVP form, his dominance, his unguardability 1 on 1?


If you sprained your ankle like he did the number of times he has this season, it would make you think twice about getting in that scrum to fight for rebounds with the number of feet below capable of ending our season and our championship dreams.

Everytime Fortson lays his big fat body on him as he's throwing up a jump hook, I'm looking down at his feet to see if they're gonna land on a flat ground instead of a big foot. Now just think about what you'd be thinking if you were surrounded by two other pairs of feet as you're fighting for a rebound. I know. It's a scary thought, isn't it?

[Tom_Foolery]

I have to completely disagree and think maybe you are rushing to judgement a bit.

He's sprained his ankle several times this season alone, so that will put doubt in his mind, which is why he's not dominating on the boards all the time. Anytime you get in an accident you are tentative. Even a car accident. You start to become more cautious and that's how he is playing at times.

He's playing high post more often in order to allow both Parker & Manu to attack the lanes while bigs move out to guard Duncan. It's all by design. Duncan doesn't play high-post unless Pop wants him to. It is usually so the guards can get to the hoop either to score or to get to the charity stripe.

Didn't he just put on like a 39pt effort against Denver, one of the more tougher interior teams?

[MadDog73]

TD can not shoot 3s like CWeb can.

That's because Tim's not soft, and doesn't need to shoot threes. But as i recall he's 50% from the 3 pt line :) (I know that doesn't count, he's only shot 2).

Webber is at 39th, with 35.7%. How bad is that? Brent Barry is only 42nd (34.5%).

[samikeyp]

Duncan's ankle will not be 100% healthy until after the season. Though he is getting better on it, its not 100%. Plus anyone who has that kind of injury (speaking as someone who has, more than once) goes through mental issues along with the physical. The Spurs just need Duncan to be consistent, which he has been. When TD is consistent and others contribute, the Spurs win.

[SpursWoman]

f' it, CWeb doesn't belong in the same language as Tim Duncan.

:wtf


No kidding. :lol

[RobinsontoDuncan]

In case anyone had any doubts on the matter:

Timmy is ranked 8 in Playoff PPG. Webber? Way down at 22.

Rebounds? Duncan is 6th. Webber? 38th. :lol

Blocked Shots? Duncan is 3rd. :elephant Webber is not even on the list.

I was comparing his overall game dumbass, the way Duncan has been playing is webber like, did you even read my post?


Next time, think before you post.

Right. I had a 1 liner post saying Duncan and Cwebb are the same player, have a real take refute my arguments or move the fuck on.



Tim is probably the best single player in terms of doing it all (defense AND offense) in the playoffs.

Now you are on Crack, Amare, his last game not withstanding, has still been more dominant on both levels than Duncan. Didn't Duncan get beat by Nick Collison many times yestreday?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

And to everyone telling me that CWebb isnt a winner and therfore is not in the same category as Duncan, let me remind you that I am discussing the parallels in their games right now, not their career resumes.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Here's the source of my take, LJ tell me I'm not right on any levels when taking this into consideration.


A Shadow of Duncan
By Kris Rivenburgh
FullSportPress.com

Gregg Popovich said nobody on the team came to play playoff basketball…except Tim Duncan. Duncan may have had a big game statistically, but he didn’t play inspired basketball either.

Duncan’s game of today is a far cry from how he used to play. Duncan’s past play was skillful, dominant, and assertive all in one. In Game 4, he was beat to a rebound by Luke Ridnour after lazily walking over to collect it. Throughout the series, he has passed up opportunities to take the ball strong to the hoop – resorting to floaters, finger rolls, and short jumpers instead. Weren’t you waiting for a huge dunk over Nick Collison after he up-faked Danny Fortson? Yeah, well those don’t happen anymore.

Going to Duncan one-on-one in the low post is no longer a gimme. It’s a belabored point. Sometimes, he just jab steps and pump fakes until he jacks up a shot. Sometimes he waits for the double team, so he can pass. Others, he drives to the paint and chunks up a one-handed eight footer. Most often he’s seeking to create contact instead of actually trying to make the basket.

Gone is the intricate footwork that left defenders befuddled and drew comparisons to Hakeem Olajuwon. When is the last time you saw him switch things up and go to his left hand? Where is the guy that used to posterize other centers and power forwards on a regular basis?

That player is dead. The new T.D. doesn’t do that sort of stuff anymore. He’s still worried about getting hurt again - so now, he doesn’t jump. I always knew he wasn’t the “athletic” type of power forward, but since when does Tim have the spring of Dikembe Mutombo? Rather than snaring reachable rebounds, he elects to try to tip them out of the opponents’ grasp to himself. Blocking shots isn’t really his forte anymore, either. Instead of meeting driving opponents at the summit, Tim usually concedes baskets that close now.

His precision footwork in the low block has morphed into ramming defenders within seven feet of the basket and tossing up his right handed shot. Through four games against Seattle, Duncan has failed to prove he can dominate any of their big men over the course of a game. He’s shown he can draw fouls on them. He’s gotten a few angled bank shots on them, in addition to a few right handed hooks. But, he has not dominated anyone.

There is no variety in his game like there was in 2003 when he went head to head with Shaquille O’Neal. The dominance he showed in 1998 versus Karl Malone is also gone. The overall package displayed in the championship clinching game versus Kenyon Martin is missing several components.

I’m under the impression experience has made Tim Duncan worse. The craftiness with which he uses to draw fouls has turned into a liability. His agility and good hands have given him a false sense of confidence into underestimating the opposition. Injuries can scare him into playing different – even if he is no longer injured. Past playoff disasters refresh in his mind and are now making him wonder if this Seattle series will be like an old Lakers’ series.

Don’t fool yourself into thinking the Spurs hold Tim Duncan, the ace, in the 2005 playoffs. He can average 20 points through put backs, free throws, and a couple of bank shots, easily. The Spurs power forward is playing similar to his lackluster performances against the O’Neal anchored Lakers, where he could muster no efficient offense. Had Manu Ginobili not played the role of MVP against the Nuggets, the Spurs could have very conceivably found themselves in a dangerous game 7 duel.

As it stands now, the Spurs have enough to douse a feisty Sonics squad if they can regain their defensive focus and exact better contributions from the rest of the team. However, the road to the championship will require much more than that.

Tim Duncan needs to prepare differently than the other Spurs. Manu, Tony, Bruce, Nazr, etc. – they need to look in the mirror, and then at some game tape.

Tim needs to look at some photos and then at some game tape. But not tape of opponents, tape of himself. Vintage film of when he used to be better than good, of when he used to be great.

[red kryptonite]

RobinsontoDuncan,

You have been jumped because of mentioning Chris Webber as comparable to Tim. Tim is still much more capable than Chris, but you are right in noticing his declining level of play. However, Duncan showed some flashes of his old self in Game 5.

P.S. If Duncan's ankle was "80%" before the playoffs started, it should be a lot closer to healed now, I think a lot of his injury is in his head now

[slayermin]

Get a rope.. :cuss

TD is not C-Webb.

[Spurminator]

I can see what R2D is saying, although I might not be as harsh. Duncan has begun to rely more and more on shooting and little hooks in the lane, and could probably get better shots in many cases with a little more footwork.

But I think this has more to do with a lack of explosiveness stemming from recent injury than a pattern over the last two years. I really haven't noticed it before these Playoffs. And frankly, while his bank shot has been a little off lately, that jumper from the top of the key almost always goes in, it seems.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

49.1

That's Duncan's post season FG%. I remember a time when it was closer to 53.2

You guys have to see it, Duncan isn't dominating the way he is capable of and he wasn't in the regular season either, he hasn't been for a very long time.

and red, it's just R2D or RtD.

[spurster]

TD's level of play has dropped precipitously from MVP-level to 1st-Team NBA level. The Spurs will just have to work around it.

[SpursFanDan]

what I wanted to know was.. why doesnt he ever spin baseline when someone is on his back?... he used to have this quick turn baseline and finish it off with a dunk. Is it his ankle thats keep him from using that effective move? Yesterday I yelled at the screen atleast 4 times "spin baseline, fortson can handle you".

[SpursChampsIII]

And to everyone telling me that CWebb isnt a winner and therfore is not in the same category as Duncan, let me remind you that I am discussing the parallels in their games right now, not their career resumes.

I'm talking right now too. Do YOU feel like Duncan and Webber are at the same level right now? If you say yes, feel free to delete your original post.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

what ^? ???? Ok I feel that C-Webb's game (over the course of his career) is becoming the kind of game Tim Duncan has been playing lately. Is that clear enough for you?

[CosmicCowboy]

what I wanted to know was.. why doesnt he ever spin baseline when someone is on his back?... he used to have this quick turn baseline and finish it off with a dunk. Is it his ankle thats keep him from using that effective move? Yesterday I yelled at the screen atleast 4 times "spin baseline, fortson can handle you".


because he has to push/turn with his right ankle to spin left...

[SpursFanDan]

well, how about the opposite side of the basket? he has a whole arsenal of moves... but he stands 10 feet out, shows a whole series of pump fakes, then either trys to drive in, or shoots off the glass.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

exactly^^^^^^^

[td4mvp21]

i was thinking the same thing about him and c-webb.....right now he is acting like it, but imo as soon as he gets comfortable with his ankle again, hell be back to normal

[DDS4]

CWebb is a big man who only shoots 18-20 foot jumpers. What a waste.

[2centsworth]

Cwebb comparison is a joke. Nevertheless, Tim has fallen in stature.

[kskonn]

he is coming back, all of the inujuries have caused this decline in his explosiveness. however, I have noticed from game to game that he is starting to use his old moves more and more, obviously more as he works through the mental block with his ankle. I can honestly remember thinking during game 5 'man he is going to shoot" then he would pump fake drive in and either get fouled, get a layup, or on a couple of occasions get a Dunk.

I would expect that we will start seeing the Duncan of Old when we make it to the next series.

[Kori Ellis]

I guess Duncan's not bad. He made First Team All NBA again.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Manu isn't LBJ

http://spider.georgetowncollege.edu/HTALLANT/COURSES/his470/johnson.gif

How could you compare me to Tim Duncan?

[SpursFanInAustin]

Would C-Webb pull off that move Duncan pulled on Jerome James, when he drove right past his fatass and threw down a nasty one hand jam?

[kskonn]

http://spider.georgetowncollege.edu/HTALLANT/COURSES/his470/johnson.gif

How could you compare me to Tim Duncan?


that is good :lol :lol

[2centsworth]

I guess Duncan's not bad. He made First Team All NBA again.
he's way above average, but he's not great like he used to be. When's the Duncan who closed out the lakers in game 6 in '03 going to show?



what's funny is Tim made 1st team NBA but there are at least 7 players I can name that teams wouldn't trade for the current TIM. Old Tim people would trade just about anybody.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I agree, and considering that 1st team all NBA isn't necessarily a scientific process, nut really only an opinion poll, I'm not impressed. I think he made 1st team on reputation alone.

[kskonn]

he's way above average, but he's not great like he used to be. When's the Duncan who closed out the lakers in game 6 in '03 going to show?



what's funny is Tim made 1st team NBA but there are at least 7 players I can name that teams wouldn't trade for the current TIM. Old Tim people would trade just about anybody.


I would be willing to say the Duncan that showed in game6 vs Lakers in 03 will show up for Game 6 vs sonics in 05.

[SequSpur]

Stupid Topic Forum.

[ALVAREZ6]

C Webb just takes shots from the half arc above the free throw line, trust me, I watched him play a lot since he got traded here to Philly.

Ever since his injury, all he does is shoot from that half arc, he doesn't even move from that arc. He can't even move his legs, he can't run, jump, which is why his jumper sucks ass now. He gets no lift from his legs.

[ZStomp]

Could It Be That Duncan's 'level Of Play' Isn't As Superior (although I Think It Is) Because He Now Has More Help On Most Nights?

[samikeyp]

so after 8 seasons....Duncan is already done? no. The past two summers of international ball and the recent ankle injury have slowed him for the moment. Give him a summer off and time to heal...he will be just fine.

[samikeyp]

Could It Be That Duncan's 'level Of Play' Isn't As Superior (although I Think It Is) Because He Now Has More Help On Most Nights?

Good point.

[Kori Ellis]

Duncan the new C-Webb?

No. But I heard navy is the new black.

[xcoriate]

Hey Kori and LJ change his title to "I compared TD to Chris Webber"

I think that is punishment enough for this stupid thread.

[milkyway21]

Look at my handle before you accuse me of "hating" on Tim.

I remember reading an article that was posted here just the other day (from FullSportPress) that called out Duncan, and I remembered thinking..."yeah I was beginning to feel that way too..." Mainly the article focused on his new lack of explosivness and his movement away from the low post and out to the top of the key. It lambasted him for taking little jumphooks instead of using the cunning and quickness he has for low post moves, you remember those right the trade mark of Duncan's domincance? I don't, hell I cant remember the last time I have seen him down there doing his Hakeem Olijuwan impression, the only thing I remember about Duncan is the new C-Webb impresonation he seems to love. Jump shots from the top of the key. Rasho lay-ups at the hoop? An over-reliance on his bank shot? What's worse is that he is being mauled for rebounds, and losing battles down there...to Nick Collison? Jerome James? Reggie Evans even? When did the Duncan of old fail to pull down 20 rebounds in a critical playoff game? Have you ever heard of Duncan having a field goal percentage of .482 for a series, let alone the playoffs?

What happened to his MVP form, his dominance, his unguardability 1 on 1? Ginobili has been the MVP of our team so far in the playoffs.... that's not going to win us a championship. Manu isn't LBJ or Kobe or MJ, he can be slowed down, and if we relly on him.... we're going to be elliminated very soon. The old Duncan was un-stoppable...you could never slow him down with out a triple team.... and you still would get beat about half the time with one.

Maybe one day he will get his old form back, but this isn't the story of the 2005 playoffs... this is the story of every game since the 2004 season... Duncan lost his domincance, lost his game, and began morphing into a slightly better rebounding version of C-Webb, he certainly hasn't been the MVP Tim Duncan this season, and he is no where near it right now, the scariest thing in the world for a Spurs fan.





Scroll down to read the article I refrenced and based this thread on if you have the desire to rant and rave without any intelligent angle to bring to the discourse....

what? DUNCAN = C WEBB?
what an :idiot.


enough! :cuss

[bonesinaz]

CWebb is a choker for the ages.

TD has carried a team on his back for years.
Five weeks ago we were wondering if he would be playing basketball in the playoffs. Now you are bitching about his dominance???

Get a grip.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Can't you dumb asses understand what I'm saying?

I'm not saying he has the same character or mentality or whatever as CWebb, I'm saying that he is beginning to play like him :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss


Did any of my less mature detracters even bother to read my first post or the article that i posted along with it from Fullsportpress?

[FilSpursFan]

Tim Duncan did not lie in a Grand Jury :-)

[FilSpursFan]

Tim Duncan did not lie in a Grand Jury or was involved in any scam :-)

[gilmor]

Hey RobinsonToDuncan, why don't we twist your ankle 6 times and see if you can still run like carl lewis or walk like charlie chaplin?

[N.Y. Johnny]

Could It Be That Duncan's 'level Of Play' Isn't As Superior (although I Think It Is) Because He Now Has More Help On Most Nights?


Damn Straight!
Duncan's Got OUR HELP On The court and THats why his Numbers Are down
Versus the Sonics in this Round

Sincerely,
The Refreshment Vendor in section 228 Row 20
The Spur Fan At Home
Brent Barry

[smeagol]

RtD:

I thought your relentless posts about TP>Manu were bad enough, but now this?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

STFU Smeagol, I bet you never read the god damn post either, you guys can all jump on the band wagon, but refute the fact that he is playing like CWebb plays why don't you?

I didn't say that there wasn't a reason for it, I didn't say I dont like tim duncan, I'm just saying that he is playign like CWebb, if you are too fuckign ignorant to read, that's your own problem.

[orhe]

just change the topic!
yes duncan's explosiveness has really diminished. but hey he still get's the shots he wants... to start with his game is about smarts, fakes and his length. his explosiveness was just a bonus. if you can get 5 foot hooks almost anytime i still think you're pretty good

[smeagol]

STFU Smeagol, I bet you never read the god damn post either, you guys can all jump on the band wagon, but refute the fact that he is playing like CWebb plays why don't you?

I didn't say that there wasn't a reason for it, I didn't say I dont like tim duncan, I'm just saying that he is playign like CWebb, if you are too fuckign ignorant to read, that's your own problem.
No need to read the topic because you have explained it in several of your posts. In brief, lately, TD is playing like CWebb.

I, and most of the posters here don't agree. Just like I, and most of the posters here , don't agree that TP > Manu. But you are entitled to your opinion.

[SpursChampsIII]

Can't you dumb asses understand what I'm saying?

I'm not saying he has the same character or mentality or whatever as CWebb, I'm saying that he is beginning to play like him :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss


Did any of my less mature detracters even bother to read my first post or the article that i posted along with it from Fullsportpress?

You don't even know what you're saying, you stupid mother f'r. However, lucky for you Fullsportpress printed this, so it must be right.

[MiNuS]

hmmmmmmmm.

could it be that D Robinson made Duncan better?I don't think so.I just think the whole dynamic of the team has changed with TP and Manu.The Spurs pass the ball more and don't rely heavily on TD.

[xcoriate]

The article you keep citing is th opinion of a writer and not always the site on which it is published. Oh and not once does it mention Chris Webbers name. The conlusion that Duncan is playong like Chris Webber is entirely of your own creation. So YOU stfu and stop digging that hole.

[Man In Black]

That is the beauty of thinking Team before Tim. His numbers are down because he has a solid core of players who can contribute. I'm sure he doesn't give a rat's ass what you think of his game. He knows what he is capable of and knows that the people that really know hoops will talk about how important he is to his team. So Collison and Fortson and Potapenko where pounding on him...you didn't talk about how well he was playing despite that. Or that he was killing them with his play and doing his best to carry the team doing it all. C Webb would tease but he'd never deliver. He has 1 chance in 2001 and now that chance is gone.

[Warlord23]

C-Webb? C-freakin-Webb?

R2D, here is what C-Webb was worth in his goddamn prime:

He chokes game a WCF 7 away, a series the Kings should have won if anyone other than Bibby had stepped up. The Kings' best mismatch was Webb against Horry/Grant .. and he couldn't make a single bucket in the 4th.

He gets injured in the regular season, his team amazingly plays better than when he was around. He comes back to the team and messes up the flow of their offense, making people wonder whether Adelman shoulda stuck to a Webber-less rotation.

As a grand finale, he leaves the Kings to join the Sixers, and the Sixers actually show zero improvement in their play or their record .. And Webber puts up horrible numbers in a conference not known for depth at PF, while getting booed out of the building by Philly fans .. while the Kings hold on to their 6th seed in the west with Brian Skinner starting as PF.

That, my friend, is the story of Chris Webber. The only nice thing in his sordid, miserable existence is that he goes out with Tyra Banks.

Bottomline: Tim Duncan with both legs amputated would be more valuable on a basketball court than Chris Webber

[ambchang]

CWebb likes to shoot 18 foot jumper from the top of the key, Duncan shoots 5-10 foot bank shots from the corners, Duncan rebounds, CWebb doesn't.
Duncan post his man, draws two to three defenders to him, then kick the ball out, rotate, 3 pointers/drive to the lane for his teammates, CWebb doesn't post at all.
Duncan block a lot of shots, despite what that stupid article says.
Just because Duncan shoots jumper doesn't mean that Duncan plays like CWebb. Hey, he has been shooting jumpers throughout his career! That's what makes him so tough to guard, he can post you up, he can drive to the lane, he can shoot over you, and he nails 18 foot jumpers if you leave him open. Duncan is opening up the floor for his teammates, and Ginobilli is driving to the basket all day. You actually think Ginobilli can do the same if Duncan's defender was two feet from the basket?

[Dave McNulla]

Look at my handle before you accuse me of "hating" on Tim.

I remember reading an article that was posted here just the other day (from FullSportPress) that called out Duncan, and I remembered thinking..."yeah I was beginning to feel that way too..." Mainly the article focused on his new lack of explosivness and his movement away from the low post and out to the top of the key. It lambasted him for taking little jumphooks instead of using the cunning and quickness he has for low post moves, you remember those right the trade mark of Duncan's domincance? I don't, hell I cant remember the last time I have seen him down there doing his Hakeem Olijuwan impression, the only thing I remember about Duncan is the new C-Webb impresonation he seems to love. Jump shots from the top of the key. Rasho lay-ups at the hoop? An over-reliance on his bank shot? What's worse is that he is being mauled for rebounds, and losing battles down there...to Nick Collison? Jerome James? Reggie Evans even? When did the Duncan of old fail to pull down 20 rebounds in a critical playoff game? Have you ever heard of Duncan having a field goal percentage of .482 for a series, let alone the playoffs?

What happened to his MVP form, his dominance, his unguardability 1 on 1? Ginobili has been the MVP of our team so far in the playoffs.... that's not going to win us a championship. Manu isn't LBJ or Kobe or MJ, he can be slowed down, and if we relly on him.... we're going to be elliminated very soon. The old Duncan was un-stoppable...you could never slow him down with out a triple team.... and you still would get beat about half the time with one.

Maybe one day he will get his old form back, but this isn't the story of the 2005 playoffs... this is the story of every game since the 2004 season... Duncan lost his domincance, lost his game, and began morphing into a slightly better rebounding version of C-Webb, he certainly hasn't been the MVP Tim Duncan this season, and he is no where near it right now, the scariest thing in the world for a Spurs fan.

Scroll down to read the article I refrenced and based this thread on if you have the desire to rant and rave without any intelligent angle to bring to the discourse.

you ought to watch some more games. tim throws down in every game.

[MadDog73]

Right. I had a 1 liner post saying Duncan and Cwebb are the same player, have a real take refute my arguments or move the fuck on.

Now you are on Crack, Amare, his last game not withstanding, has still been more dominant on both levels than Duncan. Didn't Duncan get beat by Nick Collison many times yestreday?

Uhh, you don't have a real take. I proved that Duncan is NOT playing like C-Webb. With actual stats, not opinions. You have no proof of the contrary.

Amare and Wade are great offensive players, don't get me wrong. But read MY post, dumbfuck. I said as a complete player, both offensive and defensive Tim is still the best. NO other player is in the top 10 in both offensive and defensive stats, are they? I don't think any other player is even close.

EDIT: Ok, Amare is close. So, it's fair to compare Duncan with Amare. But not with fucking C-Webb!

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Stupid Topic Forum.


For once, I couldn't agree more.

The playoffs are all about matchups and taking advantage of what your opponent gives you. That's why Nazr was able to get 19 in game 5 after only 19 in the whole series. Did he suddenly become David Robinson re-incarnate after game 4? No.

Tim's playing within what the Sonics are doing defensively and what the Spurs are doing offensively. Manu has become more of a focal point in the offense, as has Parker. We actually have bench players like Big Dog and Robert Horry who will get their looks.

This Spurs team isn't nearly as dependent on Tim for offense as the teams of the last few years.

Compound that with the fact that Tim is still coming back from an injury and I think he's doing fine.

Without Timmy the Spurs would be watching Denver play Seattle tonight.

He's still the franchise.

[smeagol]

RtD, a word of advice:

Before your "TD is playing like CWebb" comment becomes "RtD is the guy who said TD=Cwebb", which will haunt you for ever in this forum (if not ask whottt and his Coyote/Shane Heal comments), you should come out and say something like: "This was a bad idea, etc, etc, etc".

[RobinsontoDuncan]

He is playing like CWebb IMO, if you feel like right now today, Tim Duncan is playing like his old self, and can not see why he looks like Chris Webber to me, then oh well I don't give a rat's ass, nor do I value the opinion of a person who thinks it's ok to bash a person's posts without actually reading them. If my saying this haunts me to the day I stop posting here, so be it.

[nkdlunch]

You won't have to wait long. Duncan is gonna kick ass tonight.

[MadDog73]

If my saying this haunts me to the day I stop posting here, so be it.

Maybe it's because you named the thread "Duncan the new C-Webb?"

I think a lot of people just saw that and went off. But i read the "post", and it just doesn't sound like you thought this through very carefully.

Tim is avg more points and rebounds than Manu, so how could Manu be MVP?

Tim's numbers are more aligned with Amare than Webber. So, a thread saying: "Is Amare the new Duncan?" would be more appropriate, and you could still get your point across. (That, in your opinion, Tim is getting slow while new blood like Amare is threatening to take over.) Now that's a take you could have defended.

Just some suggestions, you can take it or leave it. But if I were you I'd apologize for using Tim and C-Webb in the same sentence, much less the same thread!

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Geez, this thing has developed a life of its own. I've read the whole damn thing and I really don't know what you're getting at R2D. If you're saying that Duncan has loss a step after putting his body through a ringer for the last 10 months then yes, you're right. But unlike Webber this isn't going to be a permanent thing. Give Tim a summer off and you're going to see the old Tim come next season. Webber's loss of explosiveness is completely off the charts compared to Duncan's. In part I think Timmy is getting the ol' Tiger Woods rap. He was so damn good for so damn long that when he starts looking just plain great that people start talking about how he's slumping or over the hill. If what we're seeing from Duncan is as good as it ever gets from him I would still take him over any PF in the league.

[Extra Stout]

Tim is not as explosive as he was before he went through the series of ankle injuries.

As far as I know, he's still getting cortisone shots.

That does not mean he is playing like Chris Webber. He is still getting the shots he wants close to the basket -- they're just not going in as consistently as they once did.
The biggest difference is that he's not using most of his post moves where he would have to push off that injured ankle. His defenders are adjusting to that,

Duncan has always used that bank shot to the left side. Seattle's big men have done a reasonable job into shoving him outside his range on that shot.

Duncan has always used that shot at the top of the key. The biggest difference is that he is hesitating before shooting it, usually because he's looking for Manu. Looking for Manu has become a really terrific option now, in case folks haven't noticed.

Tim is about 90-95% right now, and getting better game by game. Whatever slack there is is being picked up by Manu, who is establishing himself as not just a star, but a superstar.

I never thought that the emergence of a second superstar would cause "fans" to doubt Tim Duncan.

C-Webb is a soft player. He avoids contact. He wastes his size to play a finesse game, and with his lost quickness he is a shell of his former self.

Tim Duncan hasn't had a rest in almost two years, and has played the entire postseason on a just-healed ankle that is still stiff and sore. Yet he is still playing at a 1st-team All-NBA level.

With all he has accomplished, for all he means to this team, for as easy as he makes the game for his teammates, for as dominant as he remains on both ends of the floor, if a person compares all that, even in his injured state, to Chris Webber's game, that person has exposed himself as a basketball idiot for the ages.

I propose that RobinsontoDuncan's description be changed from "Legend to Legend" to "Idiot for the Ages." That is a fitting punishment for his blasphemy.

[td4mvp21]

He's just very protective over that right ankle, and thats good. As times comes, he will start playing to his full potential. I broke my leg back in July and im pretty sure i had a third degree ankle sprain to go along with it. I STILL don't jump when i rebound or shoot. I barely jump, and this is on accident. I always favor my opposing ankle.

[dbreiden83080]

Lets see who is talking shit about TD if the spurs win another title and he is again Finals MVP, or next year if he's healthy again the whole way gets 24 and 13 a game and is MVP of the league again, man you spurs fan are ungrateful.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Duncan is 1 for 13 shooting with no low post presence and it's getting ugly. I pine for the old Duncan to come back oh so badly.

But can you really call me an idiot and a motherfucker now?

[MadDog73]

Duncan is 1 for 13 shooting with no low post presence and it's getting ugly. I pine for the old Duncan to come back oh so badly.

But can you really call me an idiot and a motherfucker now?


Yes. You're an idiot and a motherfucker.

And not a real fan to boot.

:stfu and root for the Sonics you fucking :idiot

(and yes, I'm pissed. But you calling Duncan out sure as hell doesn't make it better)

[RobinsontoDuncan]

And you call me an Idiot, when did i ever call him out, I said he isn't playing well. But you look ignorant to me.

[MiNuS]

Duncan must be the biggest point guard. 14/7/5 3qt

[MadDog73]

And you call me an Idiot, when did i ever call him out, I said he isn't playing well. But you look ignorant to me.


Now is not the time, RTD. I realize Duncan is playing like shit. Hell, besides Horry, ALL the Spurs are playing like shit. Maybe we just need to trade the whole team in, eh?

(by the way, comparing Timmy to c-webb IS calling him out).

[MadDog73]

Well, I think Tim staying in the game with a hurt ankle settles it.

Tim is not c-fuck.

And fuck anyone who says differently.

[samikeyp]

If this happens to Webber, he begs out of the game....Duncan guts through it and helps his team advance.

Game, set and match, Duncan.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I never said he was "C-Fuck" you dumb little shit, I said he was looking like him on the court... No mobility, settling for jump shots and baby hooks.... duh.

[E20]

Close this thread. Duncan PWNED!!

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Now, people have to recognize that the Duncan we know and love is at about half speed, and you should all be just as worried as I am that he wont be the old tim in time for the next series.

[MadDog73]

Now, people have to recognize that the Duncan we know and love is at about half speed, and you should all be just as worried as I am that he wont be the old tim in time for the next series.


RTD you need to shut the fuck up right now.

Duncan played with more heart and more balls than c-webb ever did. That IS what you said right? That Duncan was playing like c-webb? Well, you're fucking wrong. You'd best apologize, and start digging yourself out of this hole now, 'cause Tim Duncan is back, motherfucker!!!!

[bonesinaz]

CWebb would have choked on that shot.

[xcoriate]

TD >>>>>>>> Webber >>>>>>>>>>>>> RTD

[Extra Stout]

Now, people have to recognize that the Duncan we know and love is at about half speed, and you should all be just as worried as I am that he wont be the old tim in time for the next series.Fuck you. You call out the best player in the universe, who overcame a bad shooting night and a bad ankle to will his team to victory, and now you're acting like you are just "concerned."


I never said he was "C-Fuck" you dumb little shit, I said he was looking like him on the court... No mobility, settling for jump shots and baby hooks.... duh.C-Webb shrinks in the clutch. Duncan hit the game-winning shot. Duncan scored 10 points down the stretch. Duncan managed to score 26 points on 21 shots despite a horrible shooting night.

You don't deserve to be a Spurs fan. You suck.


And you call me an Idiot, when did i ever call him out, I said he isn't playing well. But you look ignorant to me.Any comparison to Chris Webber is a call-out. Don't try to pussy your way out of it now. You simply are forevermore the poster who compared Tim Duncan to Chris Webber right before he yet again overcame enormous adversity to win another playoff series.

You could just admit you fucked up enormously, but since you are a whiny little bitch who will go on pretending you had a point, you will continue to suck.


Duncan is 1 for 13 shooting with no low post presence and it's getting ugly. I pine for the old Duncan to come back oh so badly.

But can you really call me an idiot and a motherfucker now?Yeah, that's not calling Duncan out.

Just STFU and leave forever. Duncan PWN3D you.

[TDMVPDPOY]

this thread still not locked yet.....

[Useruser666]

I think a name change to "RobinsontoWebber" is in order! :lol

[SpursWoman]

If this happens to Webber, he begs out of the game....


Just like Ray Allen, Game 1? :angel

[samikeyp]

:lol