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duncan228
05-06-2010, 02:00 PM
Gentry leads Suns’ evolution (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=jy-suns050610)
By Johnny Ludden

It was getting late into the evening, and Steve Kerr leaned against a counter in the locker room and took one last gulp from the longneck in his hand. He smiled and nodded, admitting the obvious. Yes, this was the grittiest, the toughest, he had ever seen his Phoenix Suns play. They had won with defense and rebounding, out-Spurring the San Antonio Spurs, and now they controlled their Western Conference semifinal series.

Throwing themselves into the political fray with their “Los Suns” jerseys, the Suns had taken a stand off the court and then made one on it, grinding out a 110-102 victory on a night when their shots weren’t falling. Kerr won’t say it himself, but never has a single victory so validated his rule as the Suns’ general manager. He won two championships playing for the Spurs, and to beat them he knew he’d have to construct a team that could scrap and defend. He’d finally found a coach who shared his vision, and the results of their work were on display Wednesday night: The Suns shot less than 40 percent for the first three quarters, yet won because they penned in Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker and took 18 offensive rebounds.

“I think the old Suns team,” Jared Dudley said, “may have folded.”

The old Suns team did fold. Two years ago, Tim Duncan threw in a 3-pointer at the buzzer, and the Suns never recovered, eventually losing the game and their first-round series. Mike D’Antoni, whose seven-seconds-or-less offense made Phoenix one of the NBA’s most exciting teams, left the franchise nearly as quickly after the season, bolting for the New York Knicks because he felt he didn’t have enough support from Kerr and the front office.

In truth, all Kerr ever wanted from D’Antoni was a compromise. He asked D’Antoni to hire a defensive-minded assistant or, at the least, set aside time at each practice to work on defense. He wanted D’Antoni to hold his players more accountable. He wanted him to develop a longer bench. D’Antoni didn’t want to hear any of it. He stubbornly clung to the belief that his go-go-go system didn’t need tweaking. Rather than change, he left. From Phoenix to New York, the criticism remains the same: D’Antoni’s teams can’t defend.

Kerr, too, has made his share of mistakes. He admits the Suns “panicked” when they traded for Shaquille O’Neal, a move initially championed by the team’s owner, Robert Sarver, and D’Antoni, but one he also supported. Kerr’s replacement for D’Antoni, Terry Porter, barely lasted half a season. Porter prioritized defense, but with O’Neal weighing down the roster, he also slowed the Suns’ pace, distancing them too much from their success.

“I had a vision for how this should work,” Kerr said. “I just executed it the wrong way.”

All along, Kerr had the right man for the job already on staff. Alvin Gentry had head-coaching jobs in Detroit, Miami and Los Angeles with the Clippers before he joined D’Antoni in Phoenix. He had also worked for Larry Brown and with Gregg Popovich, and he combined the best of both his worlds when he took over for Porter. He returned the Suns to D’Antoni’s up-tempo style, but he also demanded they defend.

“He knows this team better than I do,” Kerr said of Gentry. “He knew what we needed, too. He shared that vision.”

Gentry pushed the Suns in training camp and before long Amar’e Stoudemire was stepping up to take charges. Asked why he had waited eight seasons into his career to become a more dedicated defender, Stoudemire gave a simple answer: No one had ever taught him.

D’Antoni had a warm, engaging personality, but he never liked confrontation, and this weakened the Suns both in the locker room and on the court. After Phoenix lost to the Spurs in the 2008 playoffs, nearly every player – and this included Steve Nash – privately expressed the same concern: The Suns needed more discipline. Gentry has provided the tough love, holding even his stars accountable.

“Before Alvin we didn’t really work on [defense],” Grant Hill said. “This summer Alvin said, ‘I don’t accept the fact that we can’t be a good defensive team.’

“Alvin has that kind of personality when he can be in the meetings watching film and he can call out Steve, he can call out Amar’e. A lot of coaches are scared to do that with their star players. He can do that. He can call out anybody.”

D’Antoni didn’t have the same level of personnel the Suns now have, but he also never worked to develop his bench the way Gentry has. Phoenix’s two most important contributors in Game 2 were both reserves: Dudley and Channing Frye. When the Suns couldn’t hit a shot, Dudley outfought the Spurs for rebounds to extend possessions. Frye made five 3-pointers, all of them timely, while drawing Duncan out to the perimeter and away from the basket.

“I can’t remember really being a part of a team that’s had so many guys step up and play well,” Nash said.

Frye has proved to be one of last summer’s best bargain signings while last season’s trade for Dudley continues to pay off. Kerr shipped Boris Diaw and Raja Bell to the Charlotte Bobcats for Jason Richardson and Dudley, a deal that had many of the Suns’ rivals smirking at the time. How did the Suns expect to improve defensively by exchanging the rugged Bell for Richardson, a chucker who did his best work under Golden State’s Don Nelson? Dudley, however, has helped Phoenix do just that, developing into a defender versatile enough to guard Parker down the stretch.

Hill also has reinvented himself, albeit at age 37. He has become the Suns’ most dependable perimeter defender, routinely assigned the task of taking on the opponent’s most dangerous scorer. In Game 2, he helped limit Manu Ginobili to just two baskets. Like Dudley with Parker, Hill teamed with the Suns’ mobile big men to disrupt the Spurs’ pick-and-rolls, cutting off Ginobili’s angles to the basket. The defensive adjustments have left even the Spurs’ staff impressed.

“I think we’ve evolved into a team with more depth and more ways to win games,” Hill said. “Before, we sort of had to win pretty.”

Not now. The Suns scrapped and pushed and stood tall under the pressure. Had they lost, they also knew they would have felt heat from the firestorm they started a day earlier. In a Cinco de Mayo tribute to the city’s Latino community and a symbolic protest of Arizona’s controversial immigration-enforcement bill, the players wore their “Los Suns” jerseys. Sarver, Kerr and Nash all denounced the bill, and while the Suns have received national praise for the move, they’ve also been, in the words of one staffer, “absolutely crushed” at home. Polls suggest nearly 70 percent of residents support the bill, spurring angry callers to jam the Suns’ switchboard all day. Kerr admitted the team will lose some level of season-ticket holders.

The Suns hope a little winning can heal some of the wounds. Not since 2000 has Phoenix won consecutive playoff games against the Spurs – and Duncan didn’t play in that series. Two more wins and the Suns are back in the conference finals for the first time since 2006. The season’s success figures to earn both Kerr and Gentry contract extensions.

Kerr isn’t ready to celebrate. Not with the next two games in San Antonio. The Spurs have been through enough of these battles to believe they can still win. Two years ago they won a second-round series against the New Orleans Hornets after trailing 2-0.

“We have a long way to go,” Kerr said.

He smiled. His team had gutted out a win like few in recent history, and deep down Kerr knew the other truth: This night showed just how far these Suns have already come.

MannyIsGod
05-06-2010, 02:06 PM
Channing fucking Frye.

Phenomanul
05-06-2010, 02:08 PM
I'm sure no one expected Frye to shoot a ridiculous clip from distance... considering he rarely shot threes in Portland.

MannyIsGod
05-06-2010, 02:10 PM
He's done it all year. If the Spurs didn't expect it then they are pretty fucking stupid.

They expected it.

dreamcastrocks
05-06-2010, 02:12 PM
I'm sure no one expected Frye to shoot a ridiculous clip from distance... considering he rarely shot threes in Portland.

Seriously?

Do you know Channing Frye? He shot well over 40% for the season. He has had 8 3's in a game a couple of times and was near the league leaders in 3 pointers made. 172 3's on the season, as much as Bonner and Mason combined. It's obvious you don't know what you are talking about.

Blackjack
05-06-2010, 02:13 PM
I've been really impressed with what Kerr's managed to do and the coach Gentry's become. I have a hard time having any real animosity for these Suns and I'm finding more respect for them than I've ever really been able have for my team's opposition in the heat of the battle.

I didn't think Gentry had this in him. He really does get it and, more importantly, he's proving capable of relaying what "it" is to the Suns; Gentry could be seen taking Amar'e aside once the Suns had all but sealed the victory when Stoudemire was celebrating like he'd won something, waving his arms and playing to the crowd. Gentry looked to say, "Act like you've been here before. We haven't done anything yet.," as he gave him a slap on the cheek and sent him to the bench.

That's coaching and accountability; it's exactly what the Suns have needed.

dreamcastrocks
05-06-2010, 02:15 PM
I've been really impressed with what Kerr's managed to do and the coach Gentry's become. I have a hard time having any real animosity for these Suns and I'm finding more respect for them than I've ever really been able have for my team's opposition in the heat of the battle.

I didn't think Gentry had this in him. He really does get it and, more importantly, he's proving capable of relaying what "it" is to the Suns; Gentry could be seen taking Amar'e aside once the Suns had all but sealed the victory when Stoudemire was celebrating like he'd won something, waving his arms and playing to the crowd. Gentry looked to say, "Act like you've been here before. We haven't done anything yet.," as he gave him a slap on the cheek and sent him to the bench.

That's coaching and accountability; it's exactly what the Suns have needed.

+1

I noticed this as well.

MannyIsGod
05-06-2010, 02:17 PM
These are definitely different Suns. I don't think that highly of Kerr, tbh, but I think he stumbled into Gentry and has at least let him lead the way. Gentry on the other hand has been fairly amazing this year and really has the makings of one of the better coaches in this league for years to come.

lefty
05-06-2010, 02:18 PM
Gentry is better than DAntoni (duh)

Phenomanul
05-06-2010, 02:18 PM
He's done it all year. If the Spurs didn't expect it then they are pretty fucking stupid.

They expected it.



Seriously?

Do you know Channing Frye? He shot well over 40% for the season. He has had 8 3's in a game a couple of times and was near the league leaders in 3 pointers made. 172 3's on the season, as much as Bonner and Mason combined. It's obvious you don't know what you are talking about.


I'm talking about the article making Kerr out to be some kind of genius when at the start of the season... no one, not even Kerr expected this out of Frye... their surprise was documented ad infinitum...

It's revisionist history to now proclaim Kerr, the GM, the greatest thing since sliced bread...

Bender
05-06-2010, 02:22 PM
if the Suns get by the spurs, I guess I would be rooting for them to go all the way. There is no one on the suns that is really hatable anymore... Nash seems like an ok guy, as does grant hill.

lefty
05-06-2010, 02:27 PM
if the Suns get by the spurs, I guess I would be rooting for them to go all the way. There is no one on the suns that is really hatable anymore... Nash seems like an ok guy, as does grant hill.
I really want to root for PHX if they beat us, but their fans pissed me off during the 1st 2 games :lol

dreamcastrocks
05-06-2010, 02:29 PM
I'm talking about the article making Kerr out to be some kind of genius when at the start of the season... no one, not even Kerr expected this out of Frye... their surprise was documented ad infinitum...

It's revisionist history to now proclaim Kerr, the GM, the greatest thing since sliced bread...

Fair enough. Channing Frye, Robin Lopez, Jared Dudley, and Goran Dragic all have exceeded expectations. It's not just one player that have greatly improved this year.

You could honestly argue all 4 of them as the most improved player of the year candidate.

dreamcastrocks
05-06-2010, 02:30 PM
I really want to root for PHX if they beat us, but their fans pissed me off during the 1st 2 games :lol

Whatever faggot fuck face.



:lol

Blackjack
05-06-2010, 02:30 PM
These are definitely different Suns. I don't think that highly of Kerr, tbh, but I think he stumbled into Gentry and has at least let him lead the way. Gentry on the other hand has been fairly amazing this year and really has the makings of one of the better coaches in this league for years to come.

Look at the moves Kerr's made, though. He admittedly reached on the Shaq deal but he's made trades that got them Dudley, Richardson, Dragic and where he selected Lopez was thought to be a bit of a reach by some at the time.

I think Kerr's championship experience and the role he played gave him the knowledge to know how important role players are. How important it is to forsake a certain amount of talent for intelligence and the willingness to buy into the team concept.

I don't think this Suns team is a juggernaut or someone that beats the Spurs' teams of yesteryear, but they're very well constructed for the style of play they've chosen. They have the means to be the "Suns;" you can't say the same for the Spurs.

dreamcastrocks
05-06-2010, 02:37 PM
Look at the moves Kerr's made, though. He admittedly reached on the Shaq deal but he's made trades that got them Dudley, Richardson, Dragic and where he selected Lopez was thought to be a bit of a reach by some at the time.

I think Kerr's championship experience and the role he played gave him the knowledge to know how important role players are. How important it is to forsake a certain amount of talent for intelligence and the willingness to buy into the team concept.

I don't think this Suns team is a juggernaut or someone that beats the Spurs' teams of yesteryear, but they're very well constructed for the style of play they've chosen. They have the means to be the "Suns;" you can't say the same for the Spurs.

I don't even have a problem with the Shaq trade even though it didn't work. They were able to get rid of a player Marcus Banks' contract. Marion although fan favorite, was becoming a locker room cancer about lack of respect around the league. Kerr took a gamble and crapped out. I applaud him this day for the courage to do so. Most GM's play it safe.

What I don't like this the Suns' front office not knowing the worth of expiring contracts. They traded Kurt Thomas away and threw in 2 first rounders to get rid of his contract, when other teams trade him and receive first rounders. That's the one move I shake my head at in disgust.

Blackjack
05-06-2010, 02:48 PM
The Spurs have 4 championships and Matt Bonner instead of Scola. They passed on Josh Howard for the possibility of Kidd (when they had Parker) and replaced Jack with Hedo and Mercer. There's been more but my team's down 2-0 ... so I don't feel like piling on at the moment. :lol

Point is, every organization makes some bad moves or decisions. But if you're given the opportunity to win a championship and the ability to put a winner on the court, you live with it. You have to take the bad with the good; no one bats one-hundred.

The Spurs could've had a couple of more championships with another move or two or if Holt would've decided to open up the wallet sooner, but it is what it is. We've still got 4 more than we had before Tim got here.

dreamcastrocks
05-06-2010, 02:53 PM
The Spurs have 4 championships and Matt Bonner instead of Scola. They passed on Josh Howard for the possibility of Kidd (when they had Parker) and replaced Jack with Hedo and Mercer. There's been more but my team's down 2-0 ... so I don't feel like piling on at the moment. :lol

Point is, every organization makes some bad moves or decisions. But if you're given the opportunity to win a championship and the ability to put a winner on the court, you live with it. You have to take the bad with the good; no one bats one-hundred.

The Spurs could've had a couple of more championships with another move or two or if Holt would've decided to open up the wallet sooner, but it is what it is. We've still got 4 more than we had before Tim got here.

I can only imagine what 4 must be like. I would be eternally satisfied with just one championship.

Xylus
05-06-2010, 02:59 PM
I can only imagine what 4 must be like. I would be eternally satisfied with just one championship.

When it finally does happen for us, it'll be the greatest day in the history of life.

Blackjack
05-06-2010, 03:04 PM
I can only imagine what 4 must be like. I would be eternally satisfied with just one championship.

I wish I could say I didn't know how you feel, but I've been around long enough to know better. My Spurs used to be the "soft, can't-win-the-big-one chokers."

There are 30 teams in the league and there have only been 5 teams to win a championship since the Spurs first won in 98-99. It takes more than skill, hard work or great ownership to win a championship, it takes a good amount of fortune, and even flat out luck. I'm definitely appreciative my team's been blessed with it.

If the Spurs don't manage to pull this thing out, I think this might be the first time I'll actually root for another team to go ahead and win it. But I'll hold off on temporarily joining your bandwagon for now. :hat

Bender
05-06-2010, 03:04 PM
When it finally does happen for us, it'll be the greatest day in the history of life.
:lol
is your life that bad?

Xylus
05-06-2010, 03:05 PM
:lol
is your life that bad?

:lol

da_suns_fan
05-06-2010, 03:14 PM
The defense and accountability criticisms of D'Antoni are spot on, the "develop a bench" is absolutely stupid.

Another cliche that got started as a quote taken out of context.

Cheap ass Sarver made his coach the GM to save money. D'Antoni really wanted to keep Tim Thomas after his great 2006 playoffs but couldnt sign TT and sign a pick and keep the team under the luxury tax. Thus, he decided to trade away the picks and make an offer to TT.

He was trying to win a championship "now" and not build for the future. The quote was "were not trying to develop players".

For the rest of his tenure, the Suns "Bench" consisted of guys who didnt even belong in the league but the Suns signed because they were minimum salary players and kept payroll low. D'Antoni got criticism for not playing them. None of these guys proved D'Antoni wrong. None of them went on to prove they deserved minutes for someone else. Like I said, most couldnt even stay in the league and shouldnt have been on the team to begin with.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
05-06-2010, 03:17 PM
God damn my impression of what the team's mindset was in the preseason was dead wrong. I thought they were just going to return to D'antoni ball, but they've transitioned nicely, I guess this teaches that I need to have more patience with the team :lol, pretty stupid of me to expect a culture change overnight.

lefty
05-06-2010, 03:19 PM
Whatever faggot fuck face.



:lol
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/thstfuppercut4.gif

DUNCANownsKOBE2
05-06-2010, 03:22 PM
The defense and accountability criticisms of D'Antoni are spot on, the "develop a bench" is absolutely stupid.

Another cliche that got started as a quote taken out of context.

Cheap ass Sarver made his coach the GM to save money. D'Antoni really wanted to keep Tim Thomas after his great 2006 playoffs but couldnt sign TT and sign a pick and keep the team under the luxury tax. Thus, he decided to trade away the picks and make an offer to TT.

He was trying to win a championship "now" and not build for the future. The quote was "were not trying to develop players".

For the rest of his tenure, the Suns "Bench" consisted of guys who didnt even belong in the league but the Suns signed because they were minimum salary players and kept payroll low. D'Antoni got criticism for not playing them. None of these guys proved D'Antoni wrong. None of them went on to prove they deserved minutes for someone else. Like I said, most couldnt even stay in the league and shouldnt have been on the team to begin with.

Idiot fans like DOK will claim D'Antoni couldnt "develop" players which is stupid considering what he did with Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, Boris Diaw, Raja Bell, James Jones etc.


I agree about the bench thing and always have. Jalen Rose and Marcus Banks weren't going to make a difference in 2007, however, D'antoni never showed a huge interest in getting a deeper bench. And I'll repeat, I never said he couldn't develop players, it's that for the most part, he chose not to. When he wanted to be he was a great talent developer because he was comfortable letting players make mistakes.

Blackjack
05-06-2010, 03:23 PM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/thstfuppercut4.gif

Zang. :tu

DUNCANownsKOBE2
05-06-2010, 03:38 PM
I'm talking about the article making Kerr out to be some kind of genius when at the start of the season... no one, not even Kerr expected this out of Frye... their surprise was documented ad infinitum...

It's revisionist history to now proclaim Kerr, the GM, the greatest thing since sliced bread...


It's hindsight but not really revisionist history. Kerr has made several mistakes but so do a lot of GM's in their first few years. He was willing to correct by far his biggest mistake (hiring Terry Porter) when it became evident that situation wasn't gonna get better. The Shaq trade was not his fault, it was D'antoni. D'antoni has openly said he wanted the trade and Kerr was the hesitant factor. I'm not gonna say Kerr is a genius because the jury is still out on what steps he can take to get the team over the top, but imo he's a top 10 GM in the league.

dreamcastrocks
05-06-2010, 03:39 PM
Whatever faggot fuck face.



:lol


http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/thstfuppercut4.gif



Zang. :tu

Please tell me you get the reference...

Blackjack
05-06-2010, 03:44 PM
What reference? I just hadn't seen the Deebo gif with the STFUPPERCUT.

You do know what zang means, right? :hat

http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/73910381/12120042

da_suns_fan
05-06-2010, 03:48 PM
It's hindsight but not really revisionist history. Kerr has made several mistakes but so do a lot of GM's in their first few years. He was willing to correct by far his biggest mistake (hiring Terry Porter) when it became evident that situation wasn't gonna get better. The Shaq trade was not his fault, it was D'antoni. D'antoni has openly said he wanted the trade and Kerr was the hesitant factor. I'm not gonna say Kerr is a genius because the jury is still out on what steps he can take to get the team over the top, but imo he's a top 10 GM in the league.

Im not quite sure if Ive forgiven him for Terry Porter. I dont know what Porter said in that interview to make him think he could be a coach.

I will edit my last post to take out the mean spirited comment.

Fpoonsie
05-06-2010, 03:52 PM
Please tell me you get the reference...

:lol

I got it. That OTHER Suns fan poster...

Oh, and I also got the Wayne's World 2 reference. Classic.

da_suns_fan
05-06-2010, 03:58 PM
:lol

I got it. That OTHER Suns fan poster...

Oh, and I also got the Wayne's World 2 reference. Classic.

The alfa duetto he drives at the end is so choice.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
05-06-2010, 04:13 PM
Im not quite sure if Ive forgiven him for Terry Porter. I dont know what Porter said in that interview to make him think he could be a coach.

I will edit my last post to take out the mean spirited comment.


It's cool, you're not the only person my negativity has pissed off.

And yeah, if that interview was anything like a Porter press conference Kerr musta been nuts to hire him. When he was the head assistant on Detroit and they promoted Michael Curry ahead of him, a red flag should have gone up. Idk what the worst Porter moment was, him having the team make collages to build unity, basically admitting he had no idea who Roger Mason was when at the time he was leading the NBA in 3 point percent, or literally having nothing to say after Granger hit that shot.

On an unrelated note, what will you think of Sarver if/when Amare gets an extension? The more I think about it, he has always been willing to shell out money when D'antoni/Kerr told him he needed to. Porter for example, Sarver is currently paying two coaches for a team most thought was a borderline playoff team. I can go on, but I'll certainly be less hard on him if Amare gets an extension.

Blackjack
05-06-2010, 04:43 PM
:lol

I got it. That OTHER Suns fan poster...

Oh, and I also got the Wayne's World 2 reference. Classic.

Got it. :tu

And it's from the original. Give it a read (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105793/quotes), it's good times. :toast

Blackjack
05-06-2010, 04:55 PM
The alfa duetto he drives at the end is so choice.

http://www.duettoclub.it/file/inqui/20068282252_Immagine28.jpg

da_suns_fan
05-06-2010, 05:20 PM
http://www.duettoclub.it/file/inqui/20068282252_Immagine28.jpg

que bella.

ploto
05-06-2010, 05:40 PM
A few years back I pegged Gentry as my choice to replace Pop when he retires, but it looks like he may stick with the Suns for some time.