Why are we using Tony Parker?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

This guy is doing absolutely nothing on the offensive end, and has yet to turn up the heat defensively like we know he can.

He's still fucking hurt and its obvious. We had a team that was decent and in a good rhythm. The past two games all I have seen is crap. Bringing Ginobili back was a stretch, but he came out producing with amazing efficiency.

Parker, on the other hand, is dragging the team down IMO. Sit his fucking ass down, this is painful watching the guy who dropped 53 earlier play like this.


We used Jacque Vaughn for the first time in forever today. Why we did that, I have no idea, but Parker playing like this seems to make Pop use maddeningly stupid lineups over and over and over.

[lefty]

Hill >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.. TP

[xtremesteven33]

??????


do people watch the spurs games?

[problem1]

Obviously we are playing worse since Tp returns.
6-2 Vs 2-6

[Brazil]

Pathetic team and pathetic thread

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I'm not saying Hill > TP, but right now TP is putting this team in a funk.

We were running plays with RMJ and Parker was standing there doing jack shit. This tells me

a) Parker is willingly passive because he knows he's hurt

or

b) Pop knows Parker is hurt, is overthinking this shit, and is fucking his team by using Parker to do nothing.

Why would RMJ run plays over and over again while the Pistons make their 4th quarter run, when Parker is basically dribbling in a circle when RMJ passes him the ball?

[xtremesteven33]

IF you watched the spurs game tonight, its obvious the problem wasnt parker.

it was everyones lack of intensity and passion. They played it like a preseason game. Ill honestly say this is probably the most pathetic spurs performance i have ever seen in terms of cohesivness and lack of effort.

parker was creating and slashing. If you blame this on parker.....youre a moron.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

For everyone scoffing the thread, answer why Pop had RMJ running plays with Parker in the game while the Pistons made their game clinching run

Dumbasses.

Duncan playing soft did not help matters but the ball doesn't just magically appear in duncan's hands, it starts with the guards. BBall 101.

[WildcardManu]

wow, how one game can turn people. pathetic fans

[Cant_Be_Faded]

IF you watched the spurs game tonight, its obvious the problem wasnt parker.

it was everyones lack of intensity and passion. They played it like a preseason game. Ill honestly say this is probably the most pathetic spurs performance i have ever seen in terms of cohesivness and lack of effort.

parker was creating and slashing. If you blame this on parker.....youre a moron.

So you think parker was creating and slashing like normal Parker? Okay, you're right, I'm the dumbass. :toast

[dbestpro]

Plain and simple the problems of this team right now rests on the inability of Pop to get Manu and Tony to play team ball and adjust to Mason and Hill. Pop needs to make some choices and build a standard rotation. Hill and Mason have lost their aggressiveness since the return of the superstars. Tony and Manu are both playing different songs while the rest of the team is playing yet a third song. This team is mediocre unless they can get back to passing the ball. Even then its 4 on 5 as we play with only one big man with any ability.

[Heath Ledger]

Gee you don't think the Pistons stifling defense had nothing to do with the Spurs problems?

[Brazil]

Tp is 6-14 with 5 assists... what's fucking wrong with you guys ? how can you blame TP for this loss ? it's crazy except TD/Bowen the performance of the rest of the team is much worse

[xtremesteven33]

So you think parker was creating and slashing like normal Parker? Okay, you're right, I'm the dumbass. :toast


Yes he was.

IF parker had not played we wouldve lost by 20+ points.

this goes on pop tonight and lack of passion by the whole team. including parker

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Plain and simple the problems of this team right now rests on the inability of Pop to get Manu and Tony to play team ball and adjust to Mason and Hill. Pop needs to make some choices and build a standard rotation. Hill and Mason have lost their aggressiveness since the return of the superstars. Tony and Manu are both playing different songs while the rest of the team is playing yet a third song. This team is mediocre unless they can get back to passing the ball. Even then its 4 on 5 as we play with only one big man with any ability.

I agree. Pop is overthinking this guard play bull shit.

[dbestpro]

IF you watched the spurs game tonight, its obvious the problem wasnt parker.

it was everyones lack of intensity and passion. They played it like a preseason game. Ill honestly say this is probably the most pathetic spurs performance i have ever seen in terms of cohesivness and lack of effort.

parker was creating and slashing. If you blame this on parker.....youre a moron.

I guess this must be opposite day where when you refer to moron you actually mean genius.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Tp is 6-14 with 5 assists... what's fucking wrong with you guys ? how can you blame TP for this loss ? it's crazy except TD/Bowen the performance of the rest of the team is much worse

You're right, stats are always completely indicative of a player's performance. What was I thinking :toast

[Brazil]

For everyone scoffing the thread, answer why Pop had RMJ running plays with Parker in the game while the Pistons made their game clinching run

Dumbasses.

Duncan playing soft did not help matters but the ball doesn't just magically appear in duncan's hands, it starts with the guards. BBall 101.

Blame Pop and create another fucking fire pop thread to change

[timaios]

+/-

T. Parker +2
R. Mason -11
G. Hill -8
M. Ginobili -17

So it's Tony Parker fault, of course...

[Spurs Brazil]

+/-

T. Parker +2
R. Mason -11
G. Hill -8
M. Ginobili -17

So it's Tony Parker fault, of course...

Don't forget Ime

-7 in only 4 minutes

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Blame Pop and create another fucking fire pop thread to change

Cuz Parker doesn't have a history of calling for the ball right? What was I thinking :toast

[lefty]

Trade TP + JV for a big man

Start Hill

Go Spurs Go !

[Cant_Be_Faded]

He's not healthy and Pop is not using him right in this shape.

Talk about watching the game, if you watched the fucking game the guy we saw tonight is nowhere near the guy that left the team a month ago.

[mystargtr34]

+/-

T. Parker +2
R. Mason -11
G. Hill -8
M. Ginobili -17

So it's Tony Parker fault, of course...

That stat is mis leading.

Parker got +10 of those when Duncan went on that tear in the second quarter.

Everyone outside of Duncan and Bowen was complete dog shit tonight.

Even Duncan towards the end.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

That stat is mis leading.

Parker got +10 of those when Duncan went on that tear in the second quarter.

Everyone outside of Duncan and Bowen was complete dog shit tonight.

Even Duncan towards the end.

Parker also got three baskets at the very end when the game was already over. Thereby skewing those meaningless stats anyways.

[timaios]

Trade TP + JV for a big man

Start Hill

Go Spurs Go !

George Hill
6:26 min FG 0/0 2reb 0ast 2pf +/- -8 !!!

[lefty]

6:26 min FG 0/0 2reb 0ast 2pf +/- -8 !!!

Hill not playing well since TP came back

But when he starts.......

[Brazil]

You're right, stats are always completely indicative of a player's performance. What was I thinking :toast

I've seen the game and the facts are : the stats are not so bad and he has played poorly but the rest of the team except TD and Bowen was much worse, so my point is the same : why do you blame him in particular ?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It's amazing how fucking emo some of you can be when it comes to either Parker or Manu.

He's not healthy, and Pop is not using his minutes in a way conducive to winning games. End of Story. The original post in this thread tried to get that message across, but some of you take it as the same old endless vacuous parker bashing. It's not. I'm not saying anything is your precious Parker's fault, I'm just saying he's not up for playing the way Pop is using him. So why are we using him?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I've seen the game and the facts are : the stats are not so bad and he has played poorly but the rest of the team except TD and Bowen was much worse, so my point is the same : why do you blame him in particular ?


I never even began to blame him "in particular". This is why you parker/manu homers are the spurstalk.com douchebags of all time.

It's not like its really possible the guy is still really hurt right? He played the best Parker he could possibly play, and was by far our best player right? GMAFB, and take your homer glasses off.

[dbestpro]

Let's not blame Parker. Let's just say its the 3 second rule. Anybody who holds the ball and dribbles for more than 3 seconds without passing is causing everyone else to play passive.

[Brazil]

Hill not playing well since TP came back

But when he starts.......

Great, so the guy is a rookie and he needs to start over an all star because ... ? he is too sensitive and the TP presence annoys him ? :bang

[timaios]

It's amazing how fucking emo some of you can be when it comes to either Parker or Manu.

He's not healthy, and Pop is not using his minutes in a way conducive to winning games. End of Story. The original post in this thread tried to get that message across, but some of you take it as the same old endless vacuous parker bashing. It's not. I'm not saying anything is your precious Parker's fault, I'm just saying he's not up for playing the way Pop is using him. So why are we using him?

Name 3 spurs players that were playing better than TP tonight...
1 Tim Duncan...

[xtremesteven33]

I never even began to blame him "in particular". This is why you parker/manu homers are the spurstalk.com douchebags of all time.

It's not like its really possible the guy is still really hurt right? He played the best Parker he could possibly play, and was by far our best player right? GMAFB, and take your homer glasses off.



than what is your beef exactly??

if its not parkers fault, than why did you put the loss on him?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I couldn't watch the game, but judging by the stats, it seems to me TP was the least of the Spurs problems...

[lefty]

Great, so the guy is a rookie and he needs to start over an all star because ... ? he is too sensitive and the TP presence annoys him ? :bang

Hey, I was trying to get you started and it worked :D

The whole team + Pop are to blame for tonight's loss

TP rocks :toast

[timaios]

I couldn't watch the game, but judging by the stats, it seems to me TP was the least of the Spurs problems...

Well in fact he was not very good. But others were worse... beside Duncan.

[redskinfan]

Pop never wants his team jelling this early in the season, He would prefer kicking ass later and does this lineup bullshit tinkering every fucking year and then is a genius when they close out the year big....

[lefty]

Pop never wants his team jelling this early in the season, He would prefer kicking ass later and does this lineup bullshit tinkering every fucking year and then is a genius when they close out the year big....

I like the way you think :married:

[SnakeBoy]

Pop never wants his team jelling this early in the season, He would prefer kicking ass later and does this lineup bullshit tinkering every fucking year and then is a genius when they close out the year big....

True enough and every year stupid fans spend the early season bitching about how Pop doesn't know what he's doing.

[Ice009]

Gee you don't think the Pistons stifling defense had nothing to do with the Spurs problems?

I actually like the Pistons, and I don't feel as bad losing to you guys than I was to Houston the other day. I'm also mad at you guys for not winning the Championship in those years where the Spurs didn't win it.

[kace]

Wow !! it wasn't too long this time.

it's what is amazing with hate, you can't argue against it.

* obviously, TP isn't the worse player since he's back, you can even argue that he's maybe the best, but it's still his fault.

* every stat show you that he's one of the best on the court, but it doesn't change anything.

* he takes way less shot, make a lot more of assists (a lot fucked up by fin and bonner) but he's still selfish. on the other hand, manu who was out too when we had our winning streak against weak teams will never see (fortunately) this kind of stupid thread against him.

* Hill had his chance tonight but played poorly (it can happen) but it's still tp' fault. have tim or manu ever been considered responsible for another SG or forward poor play ?? NEVER

* Manu make a three at the end of the game : he's our savior
Tony makes two j's on the following possessions: he's a stupid asshole trying too late to make his stats looks good (it's true, read the thread on the game and others posts)

* Tim has a good game and we lose: it's a shame that his stupid teamates waste his talent
Tony has a great game and we still lose: it's his fault, he's a ballhog who makes his team plays poorly.

* TP wasn't very good tonight, but he was still our 2nd best player

YOU JUST CAN'T ARGUE WITH HATE AND STUPIDITY.

fortunately, some of us seem to really see the game and understand what happen.

[Brazil]

I never even began to blame him "in particular". This is why you parker/manu homers are the spurstalk.com douchebags of all time.

It's not like its really possible the guy is still really hurt right? He played the best Parker he could possibly play, and was by far our best player right? GMAFB, and take your homer glasses off.

Point taken. My bad.

Now look at the board and check the number of threads regarding parker, it's fucking crazy... it's quite normal to become parano.
I'm a TP homer no doubt but I'm also a spurs homer and I'll react on the same way for Manu and TD.

Now I disagree with u : TP is coming back and it was not painful to watch, bench him is not good idea right now.

[Brazil]

Hey, I was trying to get you started and it worked :D

The whole team + Pop are to blame for tonight's loss

TP rocks :toast

:whine:lol

[problem1]

The team is better with TP.That's obvious.

But the team is playing worse since he came back.That's obvious too.

Finley was scoring 10 ppg.Hill was scoring 11ppg.Mason was playing like an all star...
And we are winning games!!!

Now we are losing again and these 3 boys are playing like if they were worse than JV.

Pop needs to find a way to get involved these players.We can't win a lot of games without their points.

And we need a big man too.Duncan can't play 40 minutes every game because he will be tired if we make the playoffs.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Point taken. My bad.

Now look at the board and check the number of threads regarding parker, it's fucking crazy... it's quite normal to become parano.
I'm a TP homer no doubt but I'm also a spurs homer and I'll react on the same way for Manu and TD.

Now I disagree with u : TP is coming back and it was not painful to watch, bench him is not good idea right now.

There are alot of idiots saying start Hill over Parker or Trade Parker or that bull shit. All I'm saying is "why are we using him in this manner at this point in time?"

[timaios]

There are alot of idiots saying start Hill over Parker or Trade Parker or that bull shit. All I'm saying is "why are we using him in this manner at this point in time?"

Because
With TP 35:37min Spurs are +2
Without TP 12:23min Spurs are -14

[Brazil]

I guess that it will take some time to get back a good chemistry... they did not play with Manu since May... there is lot of new players. Pop has a lot of work to do.

[kace]

Point taken. My bad.

Now look at the board and check the number of threads regarding parker, it's fucking crazy... it's quite normal to become parano.
I'm a TP homer no doubt but I'm also a spurs homer and I'll react on the same way for Manu and TD.

Now I disagree with u : TP is coming back and it was not painful to watch, bench him is not good idea right now.

you're not parano at all.

look at the original post and you'll see it's a bashing TP thread.
The OP is trying to make it looks nice now. LAME.

[mVp]

Because
With TP 35:37min Spurs are +2
Without TP 12:23min Spurs are -14

LOL you keep posting those +/- numbers in every single post you make... that stat is fucking useless... seriously, it's bullshit.

[timaios]

LOL you keep posting those +/- numbers in every single post you make... that stat is fucking useless... seriously, it's bullshit.

When Tony was not on the court
6:26 min of George Hill doing nothing -> -8
5:57 min of Vaughn doing nothing -> -6

So you think it's bullshit ???

[Blackjack]

Plain and simple the problems of this team right now rests on the inability of Pop to get Manu and Tony to play team ball and adjust to Mason and Hill. Pop needs to make some choices and build a standard rotation. Hill and Mason have lost their aggressiveness since the return of the superstars. Tony and Manu are both playing different songs while the rest of the team is playing yet a third song. This team is mediocre unless they can get back to passing the ball. Even then its 4 on 5 as we play with only one big man with any ability.

I don't think it's that Manu and Tony don't want to play team ball, but they're definitely not on the same page when it comes to timing and chemistry. Tony's decision making in crucial stretches since he's been back has been borderline terrible and Manu is clearly not Manu at the moment.

Pop's decision to bench Hill was a mistake IMO, and if he doesn't learn from it, it's the kind of mistake that could cost the team down the line. Sure, Hill picked up a couple fouls and had to play a little tenative defensively, but there's no excuse for him not to play in the second half when he's got 4 fouls to give. Vaughn should be nothing more than insurance for blow-outs, injury, or come playoff time when you're out of options. It's nothing against Vaughn, but him being on the court means Hill's losing much-needed reps that a rookie needs if you expect them to contibute down the stretch.

The veterans (Parker,Mason,and Ginobili) also need to defer to Hill a little, instead of looking to take the ball from him as soon as he gets across half-court. You'd love for Hill to wave them off and just play aggressively, but he's a rookie. Pop and the vets know what he's capable of, so they need to give him legit opportunities to fail or succeed now, so that they have a much needed weapon when playoff time comes around.


Duncan playing soft did not help matters but the ball doesn't just magically appear in duncan's hands, it starts with the guards. BBall 101.

To use one of Duncan's terms... That's retarded.

He was pretty much the only guy out there doing anything, and the team just looked content to have Tim bail there ass out.

The team as a whole played tenative, lacked intensity, lacked focus, and I'm sure Pop would say soft, (especially after going up 10) but I can't say that about Tim individually.

[kace]

LOL you keep posting those +/- numbers in every single post you make... that stat is fucking useless... seriously, it's bullshit.

yes, it's bullshit when it isn't brought for manu or tim like it has been done millions of times.

let me explain this stat: when tp was on the court, we've won. when he was out we've lost. you've got it or it's still too hard.

this stats, like others, doesn't explain the whole thing anyway, that's for sure.

[tlongII]

Spurs' fans just need to realize that you no longer have an elite team. No shame in that. You had a nice run! :tu

[Blackjack]

Spurs' fans just need to realize that you no longer have an elite team. No shame in that. You had a nice run! :tu

The Spurs aren't elite???

You mind telling us Spur fans what that's like? (You are a Blazer fan afterall)

[mVp]

this stats, like others, doesn't explain the whole thing anyway, that's for sure.

That's kinda my point, the stat might be useful but y'all people use it the wrong way... think about it.

And chill the fuck out, y'all Tony homers, I'm not hating on your boy LOL

[The Truth #6]

We've definitely lost urgency. A lot of players don't know what their role is anymore.

[1usamotorsports.com]

All I know is when parker and manu were out , mason and hill were holdin it down . These guys were sick . Manu is a star player and he has been sucking big time .
GIVE HILL AND MASON MORE PLAYING TIME~!~~!!!~~~!!!~~!!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Because
With TP 35:37min Spurs are +2
Without TP 12:23min Spurs are -14

3 shots in garbage time.

[Slinkyman]

Pop should have let Manu gel with the team before bringing tony back, now we have two guys who haven't been around for the past month and they've thrown off the chemistry we had, we get past this but it won't be pretty. It's almost like preseason V1.2

[Blackjack]

3 shots in garbage time.

I actually cheered Tony blowing that lay-up at the end. :lol

I can't stand seeing players (whether they're on my team or not) all of a sudden finding their aggressiveness to put points on the board when the games out of reach.:bang

[T Park]

Parker made some bad plays tonight and played bad defense, but I don't think he "looked hurt"

I think not playing George Hill hardly at all was a problem, and I think the offense festering like a stagnant puddle in the middle of august in SA was a problem as well.

I think guys like Mason and and Ginobili played wreckless and horrible with the ball tonight.

I think the rotation defense out to Wallace, Prince, and Stuckey was pathetic and slow.


No reasons to panic or whatever, but I'm sure the armchair quarterbacks here will do that anyways and freak out for no reason....

[Kori Ellis]

You should start one of these threads for every guy on the team outside Duncan :lol

The Spurs were HORRIBLE tonight. Give some credit to Detroit for outworking them but everything about the Spurs was bad. Manu and Tony were really lazy with their passing/hanging on to the ball, plus they were weak (I won't say soft) with their drives. George Hill was bad enough in his short stint that Pop turned to Vaughn. And don't get me started about Ime Udoka. I know that he has a good game every 1 out of 15 and everybody rallies around him and starts saying he's Bowen Jr. But he's just not that good. Next time he has a good game, trade him the next morning for a big body - young, old - doesn't matter.

The only person who was worth anything to the Spurs tonight was TD. And when Detroit turned up the heat in the 4th, he was pretty useless too.

[kace]

I actually cheered Tony blowing that lay-up at the end. :lol

I can't stand seeing players (whether they're on my team or not) all of a sudden finding their aggressiveness to put points on the board when the games out of reach.:bang

Tony was less aggressive to the hole because he was obviously trying to get the ball in everyone's hands.
he shot only 14 times, made 5 assists, made 5 or 6 more great pass for open men who fucked up

it's a typical thing with tony: people ask him to give the ball (especially to manu) but at the same way, they reproach him not to be aggressive :rolleyes

at the end, the game was lost and he tried a last rush after manu three: it worked with two j's. unfortunately, Detroit was scoring too and stayed out of reach.

if you see arguments to bash tony even in that, i guess there's anything we can do about it.

[Blackjack]

Tony was less aggressive to the hole because he was obviously trying to get the ball in everyone's hands.
he shot only 14 times, made 5 assists, made 5 or 6 more great pass for open men who fucked up

it's a typical thing with tony: people ask him to give the ball (especially to manu) but at the same way, they reproach him not to be aggressive :rolleyes

at the end, the game was lost and he tried a last rush after manu three: it worked with two j's. unfortunately, Detroit was scoring too and stayed out of reach.

if you see arguments to bash tony even in that, i guess there's anything we can do about it.

I don't know why you're coming at me with that defensive garbage. Tony's floor game has left a lot to be desired since he's been back, and he didn't help the cause much tonight, but I'm not one of these people looking to bash Tony.

The fact that he had a single-minded focus to bring the ball up the court and score when the game was out of reach, rubs me the wrong way. It' not that Tony rubs me the wrong way, but any player (on the Spurs or not) that looks to pad stats in some kind of effort to lessen the blow of a loss, has always pissed me off. Especially when that player plays for the team I root for. It's insult to injury imo.

Maybe if I was into the whole fantasy thing it wouldn't bother me so much.:lol

I just noticed the french flag, so I'll forgive you if your a little sensitive to the hometown kid.:toast

[Kori Ellis]

I don't know why you're coming at me with that defensive garbage. Tony's floor game has left a lot to be desired since he's been back, and he didn't help the cause much tonight, but I'm not one of these people looking to bash Tony.

The fact that he had a single-minded focus to bring the ball up the court and score when the game was out of reach, rubs me the wrong way. It' not that Tony rubs me the wrong way, but any player (on the Spurs or not) that looks to pad stats in some kind of effort to lessen the blow of a loss, has always pissed me off. Especially when that player plays for the team I root for. It's insult to injury imo.

Maybe if I was into the whole fantasy thing it wouldn't bother me so much.:lol

I don't think he was looking to pad his stats. I think he thought the Spurs still had a chance. If they would have gotten stops after those two made baskets, they would have still been in the game. The game wasn't out of reach. The Spurs were down 9 and there was about 1:45 left.

[kace]

I don't know why you're coming at me with that defensive garbage. Tony's floor game has left a lot to be desired since he's been back, and he didn't help the cause much tonight, but I'm not one of these people looking to bash Tony.

The fact that he had a single-minded focus to bring the ball up the court and score when the game was out of reach, rubs me the wrong way. It' not that Tony rubs me the wrong way, but any player (on the Spurs or not) that looks to pad stats in some kind of effort to lessen the blow of a loss, has always pissed me off. Especially when that player plays for the team I root for. It's insult to injury imo.

Maybe if I was into the whole fantasy thing it wouldn't bother me so much.:lol


i got your point. no problem.

but i don't agree: manu made, a three, tony made two j's: it was 7 points. with some stops, we could maybe have made a game of it at the end. you can tell tony wasn't enough agressive for you even and i can agree with you. but he's not the kinda player who try to score at the end: he was trying to make his team back. that's all.

[Blackjack]

I don't think he was looking to pad his stats. I think he thought the Spurs still had a chance. If they would have gotten stops after those two made baskets, they would have still been in the game. The game wasn't out of reach. The Spurs were down 9 and there was about 1:45 left.

I can't read the kids mind, but having watched him and the Spurs as much as I have, that's what it looked like to me.

There's a pressure built up throughout the game that really affects the way people play, but when the game is peceived by the player to be out of reach? It's amazing how the demeanor/aggressiveness changes, and how easily the shots start going down.

[Kori Ellis]

I can't read the kids mind, but having watched him and the Spurs as much as I have, that's what it looked like to me.

There's a pressure built up throughout the game that really affects the way people play, but when the game is peceived by the player to be out of reach? It's amazing how the demeanor/aggressiveness changes, and how easily the shots start going down.

Those two shots went down because the Detroit defense had let up. He took advantage of it. But the game wasn't out of reach. If he made them both and the Spurs got stops, the Spurs would have been down by only 5 or 7 with a minute left. He's not the kind of player that cares about padding his stats. No one on the Spurs roster is.

Tony sucked at various points throughout the game today, but he's not a stat padder.

The Spurs main problem today wasn't Parker or Manu individually.

It was that the team played lazy, uninspired basketball. They were lazy on D and non-chalant on offense. They deserved to get beat. They were lackadaisical and careless. Shooting 6-24 from 3 didn't help either. I'm sure watching film with Pop will be a joy for the players.:lmao

[Blackjack]

Those two shots went down because the Detroit defense had let up. He took advantage of it. But the game wasn't out of reach. If he made them both and the Spurs got stops, the Spurs would have been down by only 5 or 7 with a minute left. He's not the kind of player that cares about padding his stats. No one on the Spurs roster is.

Tony sucked at various points throughout the game today, but he's not a stat padder.


The Spurs main problem today wasn't Parker or Manu individually.

It was that the team played lazy, uninspired basketball. They were lazy on D and non-chalant on offense. They deserved to get beat. They were lackadaisical and careless. I'm sure watching film with Pop will be a joy for the players.:lmao

I'm not trying to call the kid Ricky Davis now...:lol

[Blackjack]

I agree with you for the most part Kori about what the problems are.:toast

Here's what I had to say in response to a couple of posts after the game, and a couple of other things that bothered me.


Originally Posted by dbestpro

Plain and simple the problems of this team right now rests on the inability of Pop to get Manu and Tony to play team ball and adjust to Mason and Hill. Pop needs to make some choices and build a standard rotation. Hill and Mason have lost their aggressiveness since the return of the superstars. Tony and Manu are both playing different songs while the rest of the team is playing yet a third song. This team is mediocre unless they can get back to passing the ball. Even then its 4 on 5 as we play with only one big man with any ability.


I don't think it's that Manu and Tony don't want to play team ball, but they're definitely not on the same page when it comes to timing and chemistry. Tony's decision making in crucial stretches since he's been back has been borderline terrible and Manu is clearly not Manu at the moment.

Pop's decision to bench Hill was a mistake IMO, and if he doesn't learn from it, it's the kind of mistake that could cost the team down the line. Sure, Hill picked up a couple fouls and had to play a little tenative defensively, but there's no excuse for him not to play in the second half when he's got 4 fouls to give. Vaughn should be nothing more than insurance for blow-outs, injury, or come playoff time when you're out of options. It's nothing against Vaughn, but him being on the court means Hill's losing much-needed reps that a rookie needs if you expect them to contibute down the stretch.

The veterans (Parker,Mason,and Ginobili) also need to defer to Hill a little, instead of looking to take the ball from him as soon as he gets across half-court. You'd love for Hill to wave them off and just play aggressively, but he's a rookie. Pop and the vets know what he's capable of, so they need to give him legit opportunities to fail or succeed now, so that they have a much needed weapon when playoff time comes around.



Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded

Duncan playing soft did not help matters but the ball doesn't just magically appear in duncan's hands, it starts with the guards. BBall 101.

To use one of Duncan's terms... That's retarded.

He was pretty much the only guy out there doing anything, and the team just looked content to have Tim bail there ass out.

The team as a whole played tenative, lacked intensity, lacked focus, and I'm sure Pop would say soft, (especially after going up 10) but I can't say that about Tim individually.

[Kori Ellis]

Well I think the starting lineup should be TP/Mason/Bowen/Duncan/Body and then have Hill come off the bench with Manu and Finley. (Even though Manu said in the paper that he wants more court time with Tony.) I think those units should be able to adapt and work well together. But Pop has to decide on something. Shuffling the starting lineup every game and having helter skelter substitution patterns doesn't help any player get in the flow and kills the chemistry before it starts.

[Anti.Hero]

Spurs' fans just need to realize that you no longer have an elite team. No shame in that. You had a nice run! :tu

We beat the Hornets last year with shit offense. Anything can happen with this team haha

[TDMVPDPOY]

we got a backup PG who can start on most teams,

when he had starters minutes, his production was effective, and the offense was smooth involving everyone down to the bench.

in the past we were so use to the parker iso play every possession down court, now we need to change the system, cause HILL is a bona-fide player in the makn.

[timaios]

Manu Ginobili had ankle surgery, and it is his 5th game.
Tony Parker was out for 3 weeks.

They are not supposed to be great right now.
Manu needs weeks to be the Manu we all know.
And Tony is trying to get his rhythm back.

[Blackjack]

Well I think the starting lineup should be TP/Mason/Bowen/Duncan/Body and then have Hill come off the bench with Manu and Finley. (Even though Manu said in the paper that he wants more court time with Tony.) I think those units should be able to adapt and work well together. But Pop has to decide on something. Shuffling the starting lineup every game and having helter skelter substitution patterns doesn't help any player get in the flow and kills the chemistry before it starts.

That's the line-up I'd go with, but I don't want Bonner starting. His game to me is just so much more conducive to coming off the bench and providing a spark with his energy. It seems to me he finally found a comfort level in a role, so starting him and risking him thinking he needs to play over his head? It just doesn't make too much sense at this point.

Mason and Bowen spread the floor better to me for Tim's post game and Tony's drives, and having Hill and Ginobili coming off the bench is like releasing the dogs on the opposition. It sounded like Pop was pretty set on sticking with Manu as a starter, but after tonight and what could happen at Denver? Pop might be singing a different tune.

[Spur-Addict]

You should start one of these threads for every guy on the team outside Duncan :lol

The Spurs were HORRIBLE tonight. Give some credit to Detroit for outworking them but everything about the Spurs was bad. Manu and Tony were really lazy with their passing/hanging on to the ball, plus they were weak (I won't say soft) with their drives. George Hill was bad enough in his short stint that Pop turned to Vaughn. And don't get me started about Ime Udoka. I know that he has a good game every 1 out of 15 and everybody rallies around him and starts saying he's Bowen Jr. But he's just not that good. Next time he has a good game, trade him the next morning for a big body - young, old - doesn't matter.

The only person who was worth anything to the Spurs tonight was TD. And when Detroit turned up the heat in the 4th, he was pretty useless too.

Oh they were soft, drives and everything else, and I agree with Pop when he said it himself.

Pop: "And the most disturbing is that I think we were very soft. I think Detroit intimidated us, and I think they ran us all over the court, with their aggressiveness and their physicality. It was really sad to watch in that respect, I thought we totally folded to their aggressive play. Thus the loss."

Sounds about right to me. We includes Manu and Tony. Tony agreed with Pop in saying they played soft. Manu agreed with the soft description as well. Both said it in their interviews, I think they have a good idea. Despite all the garbage basketball, we were up mostly all the way until the beginning section of the fourth, although by a few points, then Detroit began to get extremley aggressive, and then things took a turn for the worse.

[amy020]

when TP's back, the spurs never played better than it used to be.as a point guard,he can't involved the whole team together. he only have two kinds of ways:drive to the rim or pass to Tim.I seldom saw TP pass the ball to other guys. as he can draw the foul,he 's not good at free throws. yes it's true that Tim is our first choice ,but why not pass the ball to those who are in a better position for a wide open shot??? Tim has made several shots with great defense while Mason or some one had no one nearby. That's why Mason or Finey played not as good as they had done when TP's out. Hill seems to do a better job that he really inloved the whole team but TP only see Tim and himself.I really hope there can be some difference and adjustment after the game. Please take advantage of the HILL and Mason. They can really contribute much more if you give share the ball with them. not just pass to them with few seconds,then how can they get their rhyme. TP kept the ball so long on his hands and he should learn to share, to share with the whole team. It takes 5 not 2 on the court!!!

[TDMVPDPOY]

when TP's back, the spurs never played better than it used to be.as a point guard,he can't involved the whole team together. he only have two kinds of ways:drive to the rim or pass to Tim.TP kept the ball so long on his hands and he should learn to share, to share with the whole team. It takes 5 not 2 on the court!!!

you forgot the part where he drives and misses the floater and flop to the floor and look up the refs for a call......:lmao

[Admidave50]

amazing to call out TP while Manu is in the same situation, maybe even worse with +/- -17 and doing nothing with the 2nd unit while we had 8-10 pts advantage.

Some of Manu's groupies need to chill out

[Kori Ellis]

when TP's back, the spurs never played better than it used to be.as a point guard,he can't involved the whole team together. he only have two kinds of ways:drive to the rim or pass to Tim.I seldom saw TP pass the ball to other guys. as he can draw the foul,he 's not good at free throws. yes it's true that Tim is our first choice ,but why not pass the ball to those who are in a better position for a wide open shot??? Tim has made several shots with great defense while Mason or some one had no one nearby. That's why Mason or Finey played not as good as they had done when TP's out. Hill seems to do a better job that he really inloved the whole team but TP only see Tim and himself.I really hope there can be some difference and adjustment after the game. Please take advantage of the HILL and Mason. They can really contribute much more if you give share the ball with them. not just pass to them with few seconds,then how can they get their rhyme. TP kept the ball so long on his hands and he should learn to share, to share with the whole team. It takes 5 not 2 on the court!!!

I guess you missed a lot of the game tonight. Tony passed to a lot of open shooters tonight with plenty of time on the clock. But they knocked down only 6 of 24 three pointers.

The "Tony doesn't pass" mantra is really old and lame at this point.

But harping on Tony over anyone else tonight is silly. The whole entire team sucked, including him.

[sonic21]

Tony could have had more than 10 assists today, but nobody were making their shoots, he didn' have a good game but it's not because of him the spurs lost.

[Brazil]

In more than 30 min TP has shot "only" 14 balls, he has tried to get his team mates involved.

I'm with kori on this one : all the team was awful except Tim and Bowen. The Pop coaching was quite strange, I don't understand what he tried to do yesterday may be CIA Pop :)

[spursfan09]

:lol @ trying to blame Parker.

the whole freaken team sucked. the spurs lost against the pistons who just played better and harder. It was not just tony who lost to them.

Oh and you must not really be a Spur fan if you think TP is not needed nor wanted on the Spurs

[timaios]

Hill seems to do a better job that he really inloved the whole team but TP only see Tim and himself.

I like George Hill a lot, but he is a rookie. He was lost against Houston, he was lost againt Detroit.
Tell me how many assists per game has George Hill.
Yesterday 0. Since the start of the season 3.1 apg.
I don't blame him, because he's gonna be a terrific player. But right now, he's playing like a rookie... a good rookie though.

Last 3 games of TP : 7ast (in 16min) 7ast (in 26min) and 5ast today.
TP right now is not very good but he was out for 3 weeks. Come on.

[JPB]

A weird impression of déjà vu all over again.

-Speedy Claxton has 2 two good games: trade Parker, he's hurting the team.
-Beno udrih has two good games (yes he had some at his beginning) : trade Parker, the team's better whitout him.

So, the same answers all over again :

- Do you think Pop would tony let play like he does if he wasn't ok with that ? And more, if he wasn't asking him to play like he does ?

- do you think, coming PO time, Hill will take care of business when defenses are stronger and you need difference makers ? Do you think Hill scoring 2 or 3 against the suns, Lakers, or Celts would be ok to beat those teams ?
I didn't hear anybody blaiming TP when he torched Phoenix in game 3, last season scoring 40 something. DO you think Hill could do that ? How did Hill do against Baron and Billups ?

Spurs hardly beat (by 2 or 3) Memphis, Chicago and the clippers without Tony and lose against Houston and Detroit, with him and everybody sucking, then some people claims the team's better without him.

Can't you people think more than 2 games beyond ? Please.

[Spurs da champs]

IF you watched the spurs game tonight, its obvious the problem wasnt parker.

it was everyones lack of intensity and passion. They played it like a preseason game. Ill honestly say this is probably the most pathetic spurs performance i have ever seen in terms of cohesivness and lack of effort.

parker was creating and slashing. If you blame this on parker.....youre a moron.


That's strange they decided too loose there passion when tony returned. It's obvious he tries too take everything into his own hands a little too much..

[The Truth #6]

Pop loves to experiment with lineups over and over again. I guess the season gets boring for him. Hopefully, he settles on Mason, Bowen, and Oberto in the starting 5 with Manu, Hill and Bonner in the second unit.

Tony and Manu's potential injuries are a wild card that could delay a sense of normalcy.

[JPB]

That's strange they decided too loose there passion when tony returned. It's obvious he tries too take everything into his own hands a little too much..

:lol :rolleyes

[DPG21920]

It is painfully obvious that most people here are myopic. Learn to evaluate in chunks of games instead of individual moments.