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We need a new era of short players. The league is more fun with Earl Boykinses and JJ Bareas out there.
6'2 Curry, who is the average height of a PG in today's NBA, is considered a midget now?
We need a new era of short players. The league is more fun with Earl Boykinses and JJ Bareas out there.
If a midget guard is your best player, you won't win a le because it's easier for defenses to counter, but they can still be effective as a supporting player on a le team.
With Wemby around, I don't think the Spurs have to worry about a smallish PG being their best player.... I'm generally in favor of overall positional size, but then Toronto did get a ring starting 6' Kyle Lowry while also bringing 6' Fred VanVleet off the bench, though granted this is incredibly rare.
Echoing your statements, another major consideration for the Spurs should be the financial flexibility they get by Wemby only being in his second year. We year a guy 3-4 years ahead of the normal superstar curve, which also means we get three bonus years of him at the cheapest he will ever be. We should be taking advantage of that - we have a max player only making the MLE for the next 3 years... what a gift! We NEED to be taking advantage of that by using that savings on high caliber players in the interim.
Leaving aside anyone opinions on FVV, Houston had the right idea by overspending on a short term deal while all their young core is still on their rookie deals. That deal expires right when they have to start paying those young guys, that's just smart business.
Lakers also won les with Fisher who always looked like he was 5'11 to me. Bulls got 1 le with BJ Armstrong as the starting PG, and he looked like at best he was 6 ft. Timberwolves if they get past the Nuggets could win a le with Conley who is 6ft. So, you can definitely win with small guards as long as they are not your best player like for example Sixers with AI.
well, that was 15 to 25 years ago and Fisher or Amstrong were not the real PGs of their teams. They' were just shooting guards, bringing up the ball up the court. And you couldn't win a le with them nowadays as a starter (imo).
but you're right, the problem is indeed when you expect those undersized guards to be your main guys, reason why I do'nt beleive the Sixers are winning anything with a high usage Maxey, and without aonther second star. I also don't belirve MIN is going past Denver, notably because of Conley. TOR le was kind of an aberration tbh. Weak year, caught lots of breaks.
That's also why I'm OK with Trae, so the team starts to compete now before the spurs ideally add a star swingman and Trae becomes more of a third option focusing on passing and shooting. But Wemby is so transcendental that he could make Trae's flaws less of a problem than any other star.
Well said. The thing is that even if your roster building is perfect, salaries add up quickly and then you have to make hard decisions.
OKC is the best example. Next few years might aswell be their best chance to win it all while Chet and Williams are on rookie deals.
What are they going to do after that? Pay three players around 150 million because SGA will be up for his next extension?
There's only so much luxury tax you can pay.
Warriors situation was once in a lifetime thing where all the stars alligned perfectly. Won't see it ever again.
People are looking for these miracle trades that don't happen often.
How are we supposed to trade for a player that's a perfect fit, doesn't cost too many assets, has a team friendly deal and is young enough to be on Wemby's timeline?
Then when one or two of those players actually becomes available, they'll be like the best I can do is Chicago FRP, Keldon and a few second rounders.
Let's take Trae as an example. Not because I want him, but because he's the most mentioned all-star that Spurs could trade for.
Everyone keeps mentioning him because he ticks most boxes. He's young (pun intended), wouldn't cost too much (Spurs would still have all of their own picks and wouldn't lose any good players) and his contract is fair regardless of what anyone thinks.
He's a legit all-star and 40-45 million is the going rate for those these days. Look at the all-star rosters, everyone that's past their rookie contract is on more than 40 million per year.
The most important thing of it all is that his contract is perfect length. As in expiring the same summer Wemby's first big deal will kick in.
Then if the trade was successful and we want to keep Trae, we offer him a choice. Either accept a deal in similar range instead of ~60 million a year that he could probably get with his next contract or you're getting moved.
That's the sacrifice Wemby's Robin will have to take. Some paycut in exchange for being able to play with the best player in the league.
If we could get an all-star wing instead of Trae I'll be all for it, I just took Trae as an example why he's a realistic target.
New CBA is actually great for us because it pretty much put the last nail in the coffin of 3 max deal superteams. Those rosters will be awful outside of three stars and two max deal roster building will be the way to go forward, imo.
And that's way better for Wemby because it's going to be really hard to beat him with just two star players if his best teammate is a legit all-star.
New CBA is also the reason I don't like Devin's deal. If he doesn't get on that Middleton trajectory I don't think he's with us when Wemby's extension kicks in.
Even with cap projection that's at $170M for 2027.
Back to trade targets, there's almost no chance Spurs get an underpaid player with elite role potential or better.
You can get those when they're one year off their extension (Markkanen, Naz Reid), but you're not getting them when they have a long time left on their deal (Herb Jones). Unless you overpay by a lot, that is.
Spurs either need to get those players in the draft or find some reclamation projects other teams didn't utilize to their full potential and sign cheap extensions.
For example, some people are mentioning Pat Williams. I haven't really paid attention to the Bulls this season, but it might be worth a shot, he's just 23.
AI made it even worse because he wanted to be a SG, so there'd be a back court of AI plus a 6'3" Eric Snow or AI plus 6'3" Andre Miller... for me, having a doubly undersized back court like that is practically a guarantee against winning an NBA le.
Yeah, thanks to a trade that only occurred due to S bag's antics, his resting 95 games over 2 years, James leaving the East and creating a void and the Warriors being decimated by injury.
Outside of that less than convincing run, the Craptors annually embarrassed themselves in the playoffs first with Lowry as their best player, then with Van Vleet as their co-best (Siakam) player.
Like a lot of things, "size" is being too generalized. You can be short, but stout and still range from neutral to plus (although limited ability to switch).
Of course, if you're good enough offensively you can make up for being a liability or limited defensively anyway, so long as you have specific surrounding personnel.
I agree with you 100 percent. That Sixers team with AI was really a gimmicky team. They were a great defensive team with a bunch of role players and on the offensive end it was just AI and his iso ball. They were undersized on the perimeter with AI and Snow in their backcourt.
Last time a team won a le with an undersized backcourt was the 80's Pistons with 6'1 Isiah Thomas and 6'3 Joe Dumars. It's definitely very rare to see a team win a le with an undersized backcourt.
It’s not just the height: Dilly is super slight and has, at best, a +0 wingspan.
Lowery and FVV are basically fire hydrants, and incredibly hard to move on D.
These Knicks without Randle are really similar to Iverson Sixers, tbh.
Imo, the biggest issue with star guards over the past few decades is that they were advertised as first option superstars, but none of them except Curry were good enough for it.
Not being good enough to be the first option doesn't mean you can't win with those gaurds and a lot of them got unfairly criticized because of it.
All of us would take Nash, CP3, Lillard and some others as Wemby's second options, no questions asked. And Spurs would win championships.
On the other hand you have Kyrie who was (rightfully so) seen as good enough to be the first option on a championship winning team, even if we take his off the court antics aside.
And peak Kyrie is arguaby as good as those three in the playoffs, if not better.
It's just that all those guards got to superstar status and then there were no opportunities to get them on a roster with actual superstars who can carry teams to the le.
There's a small part of me that is still shocked we didn't play Wemby in the g league this year tbh
Man I was looking over the 2025 free agent class and holy it's like a who's who of franchise changers unlike this years.
https://hoopshype.com/lists/2025-nba...gent-rankings/
List will look a lot different after this summer when all these guys extend with their existing teams. Derrick White may end up being the headliner of the 2025 FA class.
Then I guess it'll be more of the same for the next few years + draft picks. Sigh.
Free agency is kinda not a thing anymore with the extension rules. Like for example, no rookie has rejected a max extension and then taking the QO before choosing their destination. There were whispers that Zion might be the first due to him signing a significant sponsorship. But even he didn't risk taking the QO.
There are some decent names that could hit the market this off season. PG, Lebron, Klay, Harden, Derozen. But they are all old looking to expand on their legacy rather than shopping the market. They probably already know where they are going.
I think that’s when PATFO really makes its big signings and not before.
If we want a short fire hydrant who can shoot, Jared McCain is interesting. Legs like oak tree trunks!
Yup, and I'd be genuinely curious to know what better player on that list people who don't want to trade for Trae or Murray this year (which I respect) believe they could actually end up in SA in 2025. Or who in the 2026 FA? FA isn't en open table when you pick what you like when you like. That's a coveted table with 30 guys around ready to jump on the rare, nice sammich that will eventually pop up. So you shouldn't be too picky with a nice sammich because it's lacking salad or THAT sauce and you're waiting for the perfect sammich, specially with an hungry 7'5 kid who needs to be fed.
White is most certainly staying in boston too, btw. Some stars may line up to play with Wemby but only once the spurs will be an established PO team with a compe ive roster, not now.
Last edited by JPB; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:50 AM.
* Barnes, Sengun, Mobley, Cunningham, Wagner, Jalen Green, Kuminga, Jalen Johnson, Trey Murphy all restricted
* PG13 and Anunoby will be signing long term deals this summer
Tatum and Brunson not going anywhere, Jamal Murray probably not either considering the amazing situations all three are in
* No thanks on China doll Ingram or Julian
* Jimmy Butler will be 36 for the 2025-26 season
So that pretty much leaves Markannen, Mitc , and White as the interesting options.
Seems like the only way to get good is going to be through the draft and trades... the former they've been lackluster at (as of late) which we've talked about ad nauseum and the latter they've historically never been active in. With all that draft capital, you think the latter is going to change soon.
they've been fairly active trade wise in recent years, but only to the extent they were deconstructing the roster and selling cap space. as far as trades to actually improve the roster... its been a minute
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