Lebron James a Spur for the vet minimum with a Bronny draft pick

[JPB]

to be honest I got Duncan at #2

Nah, come on. We all love the Big Fundamental but Chamberlain, Russell, Jabbar, Bird, Magic, Lebron... Not saying they're all above #21 (not saying theyre not) but duncan isn't #2.

Every fanbase will sneak his guy I guess but if you ask all around the NBA fanbase, nobody put Tim #2, even the "educated" fans.

[RC_Drunkford]

If it wasn't for one Ray Allen 3, Duncan would've tied up Jordan's 6-0 finals record and all we'd talk about is who's the GOAT? Tim or MJ? I'ma leave it at that.

[JPB]

If it wasn't for one Ray Allen 3, Duncan would've tied up Jordan's 6-0 finals record and all we'd talk about is who's the GOAT? Tim or MJ? I'ma leave it at that.

For the sake of it, Bill Russel won 11 les in 13 years of career (Abdul-Jabbar has 6 too). And Ships are not the alpha and omega of GOATness.

[scott]

And even if Duncan went 6-0... no one except for members of this message board would be debating whether MJ or Tim was the GOAT.

[MultiTroll]

Criteria would be someone who has been at the top of the game for 20 years, won the rings and taken multiple teams to championships while remaining healthy and not having to change his game to compensate for his age OR someone who dominated for a shorter period like Michael did. He came into the league 21 years ago and he's still one of the best players in the game. He's missed the playoffs only 4 times in his career.

The James know how to work the media, also not get worked by the media.... but if we take Bronny at face value:

Bronny James had a great answer on if he wants to play alongside father LeBron James in the NBA (msn.com)

Too bad. Lebron would shore up 5 glaring weaknesses on the Spurs.

[Tyronn Lue]

And even if Duncan went 6-0... no one except for members of this message board would be debating whether MJ or Tim was the GOAT.

fact

[Tyronn Lue]

If it wasn't for one Ray Allen 3, Duncan would've tied up Jordan's 6-0 finals record and all we'd talk about is who's the GOAT? Tim or MJ? I'ma leave it at that.

You cannot assume 2014 is a given if you change the 2013 outcome.

[Seventyniner]

You cannot assume 2014 is a given if you change the 2013 outcome.

Agreed. Once you change anything in the past, nothing after that is guaranteed at all.

That's why it's perfectly justified to on the FO for picking Primo, even though they got Wemby later. There are absolutely worlds where the Spurs pick Sengun there and get Wemby anyway, and many more where they pick Primo and don't get Wemby.

[Barfunk]

Lebron isn't coming to this team, that's one fact. The other fact is that Lebron coming to this team would be a net positive.

Yupp. He's probably on his knees praying the Spurs don't somehow draft Bronny. But if he was smart, and if he wanted to win his 5th and 6th, he should come here and team up with Wemby. I guess it's moot because we'll eventually ring(s) with or without him.

[Obstructed_View]

And even if Duncan went 6-0... no one except for members of this message board would be debating whether MJ or Tim was the GOAT.

Making a case for Duncan in that discussion has precisely zero to do with ring counts.

[Tyronn Lue]

Making a case for Duncan in that discussion has precisely zero to do with ring counts.

I wouldn't say zero. You never hear anyone with zero rings being considered GOAT. You need rings to have finals MVPs. You need Finals to have Finals performances. You need post season runs to get to the Finals and to get legendary post season performances. These all factor into the GOAT conversation. Rings are a big factor.

[scott]

Making a case for Duncan in that discussion has precisely zero to do with ring counts.

Not for the person I was responding to, apparently.

[Obstructed_View]

I wouldn't say zero. You never hear anyone with zero rings being considered GOAT. You need rings to have finals MVPs. You need Finals to have Finals performances. You need post season runs to get to the Finals and to get legendary post season performances. These all factor into the GOAT conversation. Rings are a big factor.

No, you are 100 percent correct. Excellent point. I overstated.

[baseline bum]

There's Bill Russell, but Celtics would've still been the best team without him. They wouldn't have won as many, but they would've won a lot.

There's no way. Russell was the entire reason they could consistently get easy points on the break thanks to his shotblocking, his rebounding, and his outlet passing. Russell was like Victor in that he generated a really high percentage of new possessions out of his shot blocks instead of swatting everything in the stands like say Shaq would do when he got blocks since they looked good on Sportscenter. His timing was so good and his jump so fast he could often block the ball upward so he could get the rebound. If you ever played NBA Live 2000 and remember what shotblocks were like in that game, that's how a lot of Russell's blocked shots were. He was such an insane athlete. Without Russell in the league Chamberlain probably has another ring or two and West has another 4 or 5. Boston probably wouldn't have had any.

[baseline bum]

Nah, come on. We all love the Big Fundamental but Chamberlain, Russell, Jabbar, Bird, Magic, Lebron... Not saying they're all above #21 (not saying theyre not) but duncan isn't #2.

Every fanbase will sneak his guy I guess but if you ask all around the NBA fanbase, nobody put Tim #2, even the "educated" fans.

Abdul-Jabbar doesn't belong in that conversation. Everyone else on that list you know you're winning 50 games or close if he's healthy in his prime and on your roster, but Kareem was the king of underachievement once Oscar retired and before he lucked into having his legacy saved by Magic. And he did not have bad rosters around him, with HOFers like Bob Dandridge, Gail Goodrich, Jamal Wilkes, and Adrian Dantley on these Milwaukee and LA teams he led nowhere. Meanwhile Magic led the Lakers to 62 wins one year and the NBA Finals the next after Kareem retired. Kareem is so overrated and Magic so grossly underrated on these alltime lists.

[MultiTroll]

I know Timmy Dunker was just as impactful on his teams and Finals as Jordan was.
Don't care if others want to put MJ "above" Tim.

Yes Tim was absolutely robbed in 2013.
And yes, we don't know if there would have been a natural letdown and 2014 might not have happened.

[LeBowen]

There's no way. Russell was the entire reason they could consistently get easy points on the break thanks to his shotblocking, his rebounding, and his outlet passing. Russell was like Victor in that he generated a really high percentage of new possessions out of his shot blocks instead of swatting everything in the stands like say Shaq would do when he got blocks since they looked good on Sportscenter. His timing was so good and his jump so fast he could often block the ball upward so he could get the rebound. If you ever played NBA Live 2000 and remember what shotblocks were like in that game, that's how a lot of Russell's blocked shots were. He was such an insane athlete. Without Russell in the league Chamberlain probably has another ring or two and West has another 4 or 5. Boston probably wouldn't have had any.

Wilt Chamberlain Archive is my favorite NBA youtube channel, I've seen plenty of videos.
I'm not downplaying Russell's importance, but those Celtics teams were stacked and would've surely won some rings with a decent center in his place.

[scott]

Russell, and to some extent Wilt, played against accounts and plumbers in a league with 8 teams. He was awesome, but didn't do anything that any other great player would have done in that era. Part of the reason why I don't hold much regard for most of the Celtics championships.

[baseline bum]

Russell, and to some extent Wilt, played against accounts and plumbers in a league with 8 teams. He was awesome, but didn't do anything that any other great player would have done in that era. Part of the reason why I don't hold much regard for most of the Celtics championships.

Let's just take 64-65 as an example as a year in Russell's prime. In that eight team league some of the other centers he's going against are Wilt, Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, and Zelmo Beaty, so half the opposing starting centers he's lining up that year against were Hall of Famers. Obviously there was way less talent then overall, but squeezed into 8 teams balances that out a lot. And he consistently got over on Chamberlain, who is the most athletic player in the history of the league. NBA was crap in the 50s but improved a lot at the tail end and through the early 60s as it started integrating. I think it was probably a better era for the NBA than the early to mid 70s when half the talent was playing in the ABA too.

[scott]

Let's just take 64-65 as an example as a year in Russell's prime. In that eight team league some of the other centers he's going against are Wilt, Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, and Zelmo Beaty, so half the opposing starting centers he's lining up that year against were Hall of Famers. Obviously there was way less talent then overall, but squeezed into 8 teams balances that out a lot. And he consistently got over on Chamberlain, who is the most athletic player in the history of the league. NBA was crap in the 50s but improved a lot at the tail end and through the early 60s as it started integrating. I think it was probably a better era for the NBA than the early to mid 70s when half the talent was playing in the ABA too.

My favorite part of this era is how Russell won 3 MVPs while only making the All-NBA Second Team those years.

[TD 21]

Russell was a rich man's/glorified Ben Wallace. He wasn't anything close to an offensive centerpiece and played on a loaded team in a condensed league that was in its infancy, yet people still pretend he's a top 3 center of all time out of fear as coming off as disrespecting him (as opposed to contextualizing him).

Not only Abdul-Jabbar and Chamberlain, but Duncan, O'Neal, Olajuwon and Jokic minimally should all be considered better, while many others have varying degrees of an argument or would have health permitting (Robinson, Malone, Embiid, P. Gasol, Davis, Ewing, Mourning, Howard, Sabonis and Walton).