Call Your Ideal Off-Season

[Mal]

- When will they move Keldon? His max trade value starts now until Feb 2026.

- if TOR rolls over to 25, will having multiple 2025 FRPs actually depress their value vis-a-vis each other? And what does that do to the FO’s planning?

This is package for superstart, that will eventually demand a trade - Booker, Mitc , Garland.

Johnson, 2 x 25 FRP, 26 FRP can be best offer for those guys

[JPB]

Ugh, so I typed up a whole scenario before Chrome decided to refresh.

I'll try to recreate it.

Assumptions:

- The draft order doesn't change or at least doesn't change for SAS, TOR or ATL
- The Spurs have ~$25 Million in cap space.
- Booker requests a trade

Trades:

-SAS trades Graham, cash and a second to Detroit for a fake second

The Spurs get a bit more cap space by paying Detroit to each DeVonte's guarantee.

-SAS trades Vassell, Sochan 5, TOR25, ATL 27 and best of SAS25, ATL25 and CHI25 for Booker and 10
-PHX trades Booker, Nurkic and 22 for Murray, Sochan, 5, TOR25, ATL27 and the best of SAS25, ATL25 and CHI25
- ATL trade Murray, Capela and 10 for Vassell, Nurkic, 22 and the worst of SAS25, ATL25 and CHI25

Spurs get a superstar at a steep but affordable price
Suns get two starting pieces, three firsts and a jump from 22 to 5 while also saving on Nurkic's last year
Hawks get a native-born two-guard to play with Young and can use the Capella/Nurkic swap to refresh their trade exception

SAS trades Julian Champangie and CHA25 to BRK for Dorian Finney-Smith

Spurs eek out DFS to be their starting PF with the last bit of their cap space
Nets get a first and a youngish cost-controlled player for what could easily be an expiring contract

Draft:

-At 10, the Spurs select Cody Williams
-At 35, the Spurs select Harrison Ingram
-At 48, the Spurs selection Trey Alexander

Free Agency:

Sandro Mamukelashvili returns on a $8M/2 contract
Malachi Flynn joins on a $13M/4 contract (with only the first year guaranteed)

Roster:

Jones, Wesley, Flynn
Booker, Branham, Alexander
Williams, Johnson, Cissoko
Finney-Smith, Mamukelashvili, Ingram
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey


Comments:

I don't like this nearly as much as the other one. Teams don't need three superstars, but the Spurs would really be relying on Williams developing for the roster to have enough talent. Johnson is fine again as the sixth man, but it's kind of amazing that the second unit barely changed despite six players being added to the roster. Ideally, some ring-chasers could join the team so the second-rounders could be two-ways instead of being signed to the 15-man squad. Regardless, the team would be going into the 2025 off-season trying to use the full MLE to upgrade their PG spot. It could work out, but the clock is ticking.

If I'm ATL, I hate that trade.

[SpursGenius]

Get into the top 3 and get either Sar or Rizacher. Have another team get into top 3 outside the projected top 7 so we can get Dillingham at 7 by getting Toronto pick. Dillingham has a chance to be better SGA More athletic with Kentucky pedigree. Sar and Rizacher are clearly the top 2 picks in this years draft imo. Both Frenchmen would be great to pair with Wemby. Topic and Sheppherd are overrated imo. Topic sub par athlete for nba. Shepherd although great shooter and steal artist on defense he can’t create off dribble in the nba.

my top 5 according NBa all star hit rate.

1A Rizacher complete game both sides. Long athletic. Wet dream.
1B Sar great athlete can shoot 3. At 7’1 he will fill out and be interior presence. Would give Spurs a way better Townes and Gobert combo like Wolves have. But both spurs players would be 5 times better with added skill sets compared to wolves who may make finals this year.
2 Dillingaham. Exactly what spurs need. Alpha can create off dribble. Mega athlete. Great from 3. Can create. Defense can be taught to him.
3 Topic. If he could learn how to shoot he would be higher baby Luca clone.
4 Shepherd. Amazing three guy but can’t create off dribble at clip needed to be super star

[jjspur]

Ideally, if we get lucky in this draft and get Toronto's pick:
at #3-5 we draft Dillingham/Sheppard (no Topic please, we need a PG in the worst way)
at #7-9 we draft Donovan Clingan a big which would make a good backup replacement for Bassey (who will probably get released) or as a trade chip for a decent player and a future asset or two.
at #35 we draft the best player available for the Austin Spurs.
at #46 we draft Bronny to trade back to the Lakers/another team for 2 future picks. He's worth more as a trade asset than as a player- don't tell his egotistical, out of the playoffs, gone fishing dad that.
See if we can trade the Charlotte first for something of value - most likely some other teams bench player.

Sign Caleb Martin Sf. Can be a starter or 2nd teamer. Plays great defense and can score. (restricted free agent)
Sign free agent Xavier Tillman as a backup PF / C More tough defense even if he is a bit undersized.
Trade for Davion Mitc as a backup pg.(restricted free agent) Shouldn't cost more than 2 2nd rounders (we have a bunch of them) Also plays good defense. See the pattern here.
Cut or try to trade one or more of Wesley, Branham or Siddy. Don't care which since all have major flaws or low BBIQ. (I'd keep Siddy)

Bottom line is we need defense and a noticeably better 2nd/3rd unit. Why waste a lot of money and assets for 1 player who costs a lot in salary affecting our cap situation , can only make so much of a difference and may have at ude issues. Spurs usually make small under the radar moves, here is their chance to do so with players that can make a difference, moves that are designed to at least get us into the play in tournament or better. Our current team won't cut it. If the spurs really want to win, they need more than a bunch of defensively challenged role players (not Wemby) and some slightly above G-League level cast offs. Good teams use the draft and trades to plug a hole here and there, teams like the spurs need to use the draft and trades to practically redo their team. 2025 will be a much better draft year to improve our team thru the draft or trades. Hopefully we'll have a much improved team by then.

[mo7888]

Ugh, so I typed up a whole scenario before Chrome decided to refresh.

I'll try to recreate it.

Assumptions:

- The draft order doesn't change or at least doesn't change for SAS, TOR or ATL
- The Spurs have ~$25 Million in cap space.
- Booker requests a trade

Trades:

-SAS trades Graham, cash and a second to Detroit for a fake second

The Spurs get a bit more cap space by paying Detroit to each DeVonte's guarantee.

-SAS trades Vassell, Sochan 5, TOR25, ATL 27 and best of SAS25, ATL25 and CHI25 for Booker and 10
-PHX trades Booker, Nurkic and 22 for Murray, Sochan, 5, TOR25, ATL27 and the best of SAS25, ATL25 and CHI25
- ATL trade Murray, Capela and 10 for Vassell, Nurkic, 22 and the worst of SAS25, ATL25 and CHI25

Spurs get a superstar at a steep but affordable price
Suns get two starting pieces, three firsts and a jump from 22 to 5 while also saving on Nurkic's last year
Hawks get a native-born two-guard to play with Young and can use the Capella/Nurkic swap to refresh their trade exception

SAS trades Julian Champangie and CHA25 to BRK for Dorian Finney-Smith

Spurs eek out DFS to be their starting PF with the last bit of their cap space
Nets get a first and a youngish cost-controlled player for what could easily be an expiring contract

Draft:

-At 10, the Spurs select Cody Williams
-At 35, the Spurs select Harrison Ingram
-At 48, the Spurs selection Trey Alexander

Free Agency:

Sandro Mamukelashvili returns on a $8M/2 contract
Malachi Flynn joins on a $13M/4 contract (with only the first year guaranteed)

Roster:

Jones, Wesley, Flynn
Booker, Branham, Alexander
Williams, Johnson, Cissoko
Finney-Smith, Mamukelashvili, Ingram
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey


Comments:

I don't like this nearly as much as the other one. Teams don't need three superstars, but the Spurs would really be relying on Williams developing for the roster to have enough talent. Johnson is fine again as the sixth man, but it's kind of amazing that the second unit barely changed despite six players being added to the roster. Ideally, some ring-chasers could join the team so the second-rounders could be two-ways instead of being signed to the 15-man squad. Regardless, the team would be going into the 2025 off-season trying to use the full MLE to upgrade their PG spot. It could work out, but the clock is ticking.

I like that trade myself, but do we address the PG position? I don't see Tre being the guy in the first unit there.

[JPB]

Ideally, if we get lucky in this draft and get Toronto's pick:
at #3-5 we draft Dillingham/Sheppard (no Topic please, we need a PG in the worst way)
at #7-9 we draft Donovan Clingan a big which would make a good backup replacement for Bassey (who will probably get released) or as a trade chip for a decent player and a future asset or two.
at #35 we draft the best player available for the Austin Spurs.
at #46 we draft Bronny to trade back to the Lakers/another team for 2 future picks. He's worth more as a trade asset than as a player- don't tell his egotistical, out of the playoffs, gone fishing dad that.
See if we can trade the Charlotte first for something of value - most likely some other teams bench player.

Sign Caleb Martin Sf. Can be a starter or 2nd teamer. Plays great defense and can score. (restricted free agent)
Sign free agent Xavier Tillman as a backup PF / C More tough defense even if he is a bit undersized.
Trade for Davion Mitc as a backup pg.(restricted free agent) Shouldn't cost more than 2 2nd rounders (we have a bunch of them) Also plays good defense. See the pattern here.
Cut or try to trade one or more of Wesley, Branham or Siddy. Don't care which since all have major flaws or low BBIQ. (I'd keep Siddy)

Bottom line is we need defense and a noticeably better 2nd/3rd unit. Why waste a lot of money and assets for 1 player who costs a lot in salary affecting our cap situation , can only make so much of a difference and may have at ude issues. Spurs usually make small under the radar moves, here is their chance to do so with players that can make a difference, moves that are designed to at least get us into the play in tournament or better. Our current team won't cut it. If the spurs really want to win, they need more than a bunch of defensively challenged role players (not Wemby) and some slightly above G-League level cast offs. Good teams use the draft and trades to plug a hole here and there, teams like the spurs need to use the draft and trades to practically redo their team. 2025 will be a much better draft year to improve our team thru the draft or trades. Hopefully we'll have a much improved team by then.

You gotta spent a lot of money and assets if you want that one star no matter what, same for quailty role players. And waiting changes nothing to that, stars and quality players in general won't come bigger and cheaper in 2 or 3 years, just because you're "patient". There's a lot of concurrence and always a team who will pull a big offer for them. Its very hard to get quality in the NBA, and you almost always have to overpay... Noone is undervaluing their assets, quite the contrary.

Same for salaries. Fred Van Fleet is making 42M this year, that's almost Trae money and sets the bar for the rest of the league.

[TimmyBuckets]

They're gonna stay pat and maybe get a vet sign up. They'll keep their picks and Toronto's if it conveys. They'll probably compete with what they have and maybe Wemby and the current squad, sans tank, can get to play-in. Regardless, Hawks are gonna suck next year considering one or both of their guards are gonna be traded. We got their 2025 picks and that the year we acquire an insane draft player or an amazing star next to Wemby.

[JPB]

They're gonna stay pat and maybe get a vet sign up. They'll keep their picks and Toronto's if it conveys. They'll probably compete with what they have and maybe Wemby and the current squad, sans tank, can get to play-in. Regardless, Hawks are gonna suck next year considering one or both of their guards are gonna be traded. We got their 2025 picks and that the year we acquire an insane draft player or an amazing star next to Wemby.

Not a chance. And they didn't tank.

[TimmyBuckets]

Not a chance. And they didn't tank.

They didn't tank this year? Interesting take.

[jjspur]

You gotta spent a lot of money and assets if you want that one star no matter what, same for quailty role players. And waiting changes nothing to that, stars and quality players in general won't come bigger and cheaper in 2 or 3 years, just because you're "patient". There's a lot of concurrence and always a team who will pull a big offer for them. Its very hard to get quality in the NBA, and you almost always have to overpay... Noone is undervaluing their assets, quite the contrary.

Same for salaries. Fred Van Fleet is making 42M this year, that's almost Trae money and sets the bar for the rest of the league.

Spending a lot of money on one or more players is great and all that, but it has other consequences. Just ask the top 4 NBA spenders GS, the Clips, Phoenix and Milwaukee where they are now. Bounced out of the first round in spite of all their spending. All that spending and all that losing. Spending a lot of money doesn't always get you playoff wins, and in this case, its far from it.

[Ariel]

Same for salaries. Fred Van Fleet is making 42M this year, that's almost Trae money and sets the bar for the rest of the league.

There's a context to that: Van Vleet signed AS A FREE AGENT, and ON A SHORT TERM DEAL. You cannot compare that witht Trae who would command a of a lot to acquire on top of his salary, plus a LONG TERM, COSTLY extension.

Not a chance. And they didn't tank.

Given the Sochan at PG experiment, it's either that (tank), or Pop's neurons are going the way of the dodo.

[R. DeMurre]

To me, the tank seemed clear-- the Sochan experiment, the exaggeratedly limited minutes for 19 yr old Wemby, the limited Tre minutes, players held out of games for the tiniest of aches, the "extreme caution...." it all adds up to piling up loses on purpose.

[The Truth #6]

Far from ideal, but I'm thinking of them signing Tyus Jones to increase point guard competency for 48 minutes. That could make Thanksgiving dinner really awkward, but could also really improve team cohesion. 2-3 year contract. A stop gap.

That would unfortunately mean moving one of Wesley or Branham, but lamentably, more likely Branham. Not because he can't become a good scorer eventually, but because he will remain one of the worst defenders in the league.

Draft: focus on small forwards, and take two if the TOR pick conveys. Buzelis, Knecht, Risacher, Holland. Take two of those 4, but probably only Holland if we also get Knecht or Risacher. We need at least one shooter coming in.

Again, the opposite of ideal. But the ideal scenarios seem like a risky role of the dice. Wemby doesn't seem to be saying Win Now, more like no more Lose Now. So ship out some bad defenders (Branham), draft a solid shooter (thinking Knecht), role the dice on another SF with upside if possible, shore up PG play with adding Tyus Jones, and take a breath and realize this draft sucks, and incremental improvement is more needed than desperate trades or not actually improving.

That's a low bar but just some ideas. Another idea is to package Keldon in some manner if they can't get find a role for him that works.

Moving forward, still need a player that get in the lane and bend the defense, and Dillingham is yes a player that makes sense given our offensive needs now but hesitant going that direction due to bad defense concerns.

[KobesAchilles]

Man after watching these playoffs, we are seriously far away from the top 4 teams remaining. And they are all young. I don't see us cracking into that echelon for a long long time. And if we stay the course with our current roster, I believe we will never break into that category.

[LeBowen]

Man after watching these playoffs, we are seriously far away from the top 4 teams remaining. And they are all young. I don't see us cracking into that echelon for a long long time. And if we stay the course with our current roster, I believe we will never break into that category.

Knicks' playoff rotation consists of: 33rd, 17th, 30th, 19th, 43rd, 36th, 36th and 20th pick.

It's all about front office competence and good coaching.
As I wrote before, new CBA favors us because it's going to be designed for two max contract rosters instead of three max contract superteams.

While we're really far away right now, peak PATFO would put us in contention by 2026 playoffs.
OKC is scary, but in three years they'll have to give three max extensions, with one of those being SGA's gigantic second max contract.
Minnesota will have to make some really hard decisions soon, there's only so much luxury tax you can pay.
Denver is already experiencing cap issues, their bench is arguably worse than Spurs bench, which says a lot.
Dallas used all their assets, this is as good as they're going to be.

I'm not saying that the road to contention will be easy, but I think Wemby has higher ceiling than anyone in the league and competent front office would easily put him in a great position with all the assets Spurs have.

[KobesAchilles]

Knicks' playoff rotation consists of: 33rd, 17th, 30th, 19th, 43rd, 36th, 36th and 20th pick.

It's all about front office competence and good coaching.
As I wrote before, new CBA favors us because it's going to be designed for two max contract rosters instead of three max contract superteams.

While we're really far away right now, peak PATFO would put us in contention by 2026 playoffs.
OKC is scary, but in three years they'll have to give three max extensions, with one of those being SGA's gigantic second max contract.
Minnesota will have to make some really hard decisions soon, there's only so much luxury tax you can pay.
Denver is already experiencing cap issues, their bench is arguably worse than Spurs bench, which says a lot.
Dallas used all their assets, this is as good as they're going to be.

I'm not saying that the road to contention will be easy, but I think Wemby has higher ceiling than anyone in the league and competent front office would easily put him in a great position with all the assets Spurs have.

Do we have one though? Because I've been saying for years (and this is just one guy's opinion) that we don't. I believe we are the Kings of the basketball world. I won't go Pistons level. But I don't believe we have a good coach, good assistant coaches, nor a good GM. We are behind the curve in many ways besides talent on the court, where I think we are far far behind as constructed.

But who knows. Maybe we hit on some diamonds.

[Mr. Body]

To me, the tank seemed clear-- the Sochan experiment, the exaggeratedly limited minutes for 19 yr old Wemby, the limited Tre minutes, players held out of games for the tiniest of aches, the "extreme caution...." it all adds up to piling up loses on purpose.

The Sochan 'experiment' wasn't to lose games. The team said they wanted to try things out and see what worked. Why don't you believe them?

1. They wanted to try a jumbo lineup with Wembanyama next to a center. This moved Sochan to point.
2. This was a way of trying Keldon in the starting lineup. This was a major question at the beginning of the year - who went to the bench between Sochan and Keldon.

They legitimately wanted to see if this could work, while making adjustments. I'm honestly very confused why you, or anybody, would think they were just straight up trying to lose games. If so, why play anybody? Just play Sir'Jabari Rice.

[Mr. Body]

Do we have one though? Because I've been saying for years (and this is just one guy's opinion) that we don't. I believe we are the Kings of the basketball world. I won't go Pistons level. But I don't believe we have a good coach, good assistant coaches, nor a good GM. We are behind the curve in many ways besides talent on the court, where I think we are far far behind as constructed.

But who knows. Maybe we hit on some diamonds.

Yeah, it sucks being a poverty franchise that hasn't won five les. This really sucks.

[KobesAchilles]

Yeah, it sucks being a poverty franchise that hasn't won five les. This really sucks.

The Pistons have won 3 les, they still suck today you moron. Coaches don't coach forever. Eventually they get to old for the job or just are out of their prime and can't do as good a job anymore. Belicheck lost his fastball and was fired. Landry was Dallas and he was fired. Coaches are like players. They have a timestamp of greatness and Pop is no exception. He is not a good coach anymore. He wouldn't make anybody's top 5 list. All-time he might be top 3, but currently in today's NBA he is behind JKidd in his own division.

RC is not the GM anymore. We have Wright. And I think he is not a good drafter. Take away Wemby and he has had a lot of misses. And even with Wemby, we can't afford anymore misses going forward. We don't have the talent to overcome a bad front office. And nobody on our staff is being considered for any coaching position, and everybody who was good leftt for other pastures.

[Chomag]

Do we have one though? Because I've been saying for years (and this is just one guy's opinion) that we don't. I believe we are the Kings of the basketball world. I won't go Pistons level. But I don't believe we have a good coach, good assistant coaches, nor a good GM. We are behind the curve in many ways besides talent on the court, where I think we are far far behind as constructed.

But who knows. Maybe we hit on some diamonds.

Yep, had we not gotten lucky with Wemby the topic of competing as a elite team wouldn't even be a thing and that pick was a no brainer had nothing to do having a good coach or GM.

What does seem to have been exposed year after year is how overrated our head coach and gm is and the writing is on the wall on how not good they really are and are way behind the league but some here are still in denile.

How in the world does a team who adds a generational talent to it and who has stayed relatively healthy be a worse them then the previous season.

[Chomag]

Yeah, it sucks being a poverty franchise that hasn't won five les. This really sucks.

Well it's this type of at ude that keeps from ever seeing a 6th and on.

[JPB]

To me, the tank seemed clear-- the Sochan experiment, the exaggeratedly limited minutes for 19 yr old Wemby, the limited Tre minutes, players held out of games for the tiniest of aches, the "extreme caution...." it all adds up to piling up loses on purpose.

There's a context to that: Van Vleet signed AS A FREE AGENT, and ON A SHORT TERM DEAL. You cannot compare that witht Trae who would command a of a lot to acquire on top of his salary, plus a LONG TERM, COSTLY extension.

Given the Sochan at PG experiment, it's either that (tank), or Pop's neurons are going the way of the dodo.

Nope guys, sorry but Pop wasn't bluffing when he said last year was about developing this year they'd focus on winning. And like many fans, they genuinely first thought they had something with Sochan at PG, which is worrying about the lucidity of the staff ( not surprised about us fans lucidity).

There were harsh debates here about Sochan at PG, which wasn't trashed from the start (I was an early con, tbh). And there's certainly a bit of cognitive dissonance in trying to comfort ourselves into thinking that roster isn't that bad but were tanking, specially after many, including me, thought they were a 30 win team or had a remote chance to fight for the play in last summer... I'm afraid It IS that bad, guys.

[JPB]

Knicks' playoff rotation consists of: 33rd, 17th, 30th, 19th, 43rd, 36th, 36th and 20th pick.

It's all about front office competence and good coaching.
As I wrote before, new CBA favors us because it's going to be designed for two max contract rosters instead of three max contract superteams.

While we're really far away right now, peak PATFO would put us in contention by 2026 playoffs.
OKC is scary, but in three years they'll have to give three max extensions, with one of those being SGA's gigantic second max contract.
Minnesota will have to make some really hard decisions soon, there's only so much luxury tax you can pay.
Denver is already experiencing cap issues, their bench is arguably worse than Spurs bench, which says a lot.
Dallas used all their assets, this is as good as they're going to be.

I'm not saying that the road to contention will be easy, but I think Wemby has higher ceiling than anyone in the league and competent front office would easily put him in a great position with all the assets Spurs have.

I do'nt believe Kncks even make the POs in the East. That's a pretty mediocre team to me, Brunson and a bunch of guys. that's how bad the East is.

Edit: I meant in the West ofc.

[JPB]

Yep, had we not gotten lucky with Wemby the topic of competing as a elite team wouldn't even be a thing and that pick was a no brainer had nothing to do having a good coach or GM.

What does seem to have been exposed year after year is how overrated our head coach and gm is and the writing is on the wall on how not good they really are and are way behind the league but some here are still in denile.

How in the world does a team who adds a generational talent to it and who has stayed relatively healthy be a worse them then the previous season.

I respect this franchise, Pop and R.C as much as everyone, but they're clearly living on their past glory now. The NBA has caught up to them and just like players get outdated and overtaken by more adapted ones, coaches and FO peeps can too... Wemby is masking this franchise flaws right now, which indeed has to be evaluated without considering Victor.

The construction of this roster, minus Wemby, is just not good at all and the players don't seem to improve that well, assuming they had the talent for that. Add spurs mediocre to bad draft record these past 5 years or so and this franchise is just and entirely Wemby right now, who was given to them.

[rascal]

Get picks 1 and 7 and draft Sarr and Castle

Go for defensive upside in this draft and then all star offensive talent next year.

This locks down their defense with youth. Trade for a bench shooter like Jordan Hawkins. One more year in the lottery for the Spurs and get the Atlanta pick in the lottery next year too.

Next year get lucky in the lottery and add two future all star offensive prospects from this group at SF/SG ( Cooper Flagg, Ace Bailey, VJ Edgecombe, Dylan Harper, Dink Pate, Hugo Gonzalez, Tre Johnson, Collin Boyles )

Next year's draft class is loaded with offensive wings so target defense in this year's draft, stay away from limited defensive prospects this year.

Team building should be viewed as a two year process across both drafts.