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He gone.
guess hes not trying to go to lakers....does this mean hes trying to stay with hawks or something
He gone.
I wouldn't call taking a gamble as to "have to make it". There are other avenues to improve the team without these risks, but each their own.
Not sure why elite half court offence is absolutely necessary. The Nuggets won the le ranked #5 in O-Rating last year. With Jrue Holiday, the Bucks can still have a decent offence with another two three point shooters in their lineup.
I would say ast% has a LOT to do with having the ball in the hands a lot. You can't really get an ast without having the ball in your hands. Trae Young is a centre of the offence guy, he either shoots, lobs or kicks out for an open shot. Trae Young has to dominate the ball on offence and his usage rate shows it. It would be great to have someone with a high ast % and low usage rate, like that of a steve Nash or John Stockton, but even those guys were rather ball dominant where the entire offence runs through them. Today's NBA really has moved away from that model. A look at the players with the highest Ast%, this year, 6 of the top 20 players (and 2 of the top 4) are not PGs, although you can argue Luka, Lebron and Sexton are all de facto PGs.. Compare that to 10 years ago, where the top 12 players, and 19 of the top 20 players with the only exception being Lebron were PG. 20 years ago, Vlade Divacs was the only non-PG to crack the top 20 (at 20). Going back even further, Brian Saw (again defacto PG) was the only non PG to crack the top 20.
I am not entirely sure if a high AST% PG is an absolute necessity in today's game. A player like Wemby is more than good enough to be that offensive hub, ala Jokic. I know people absolutely hate Tre Jones, but he is actually a very low mistake PG who passes reasonably well, the only concern is really his outside shooting. We don't need superstars at every position. I am more interested in the Spurs getting a star wing player, in say, a PG-13 like player to compliment Wemby, but someone who makes $30-$35 a year. Again, similar to the Nuggets, just that they have Jamal Murray (ironically a PG, but his role is much more of a scorer). I don't think Vassell is that guy as his shot creation, both for himself and others, just isn't there. I can see Sochan being an Aaron Gordon type player, but I am admittedly unreasonably high on his potential.
For that complimentary star player, guys like Derrick White (I know, a PG), as said multiple times on this board, would be absolutely perfect. I like maxey, PG-13 (too old and too expensive though), Siakim, Holiday (too old), Herbert Jones. I also want to take a crack at guys like Josh Hart, Jabari Smith Jr., Hartenstein, Trey Murphy III, Reid (I know, everybody wants him), Porits, Quickley, Dort (no chance), Suggs, Nikeil alexander-walker, Mikal Bridges, Cam Thomas. Not likely to have anything happen, but I thikn some of them can fit well with Wemby.
we finally agree on something.
Trae lack of defense and low percentage chunking would kill any team like it has Atlanta.
Just based off of Antetokounmpo's impatience and clearly wanting them to do so, they had to do it.
The Nuggets have the best half court offensive player in the league, in Jokic. Antetokounmpo is more based off of transition and attacking mismatches. If you can limit the former and have the personnel for the latter, his limitations become glaring.
No, you're conflating usage rate/% with assist rate/% and the latter is almost always an indication of how good a playmaker for others one is (Westbrook being a notable exception; he was really just an elite drive and kick type due to his once freakish athleticism and aggressiveness).
Of course a star wing is preferable; good luck finding it, especially at that price point. This is literally the argument many pro young or at least unbiased types are making when they either say pursue him or at least don't summarily dismiss it.
If a really good PG is not available or as rare as a unicorn if a free agent, could we find an acceptable point forward? We've seen some in the league that were more than adequate as starters. Of course, you can say they are as rare as unicorns as well.
damn, Young left Clutch?
interesting developments for sure.
Actual maturity comes when you don't feel the need to share every single thought that crosses your mind in social media, tbh. Specially something apparently as personal as this.
Last edited by DAF86; 1 Week Ago at 03:21 AM.
Yeah, watch them and see how, even in today's NBA, defense is what wins. Celtics, Knicks, Wolves, Thunder. All elite defensive teams without a single weak link. That's what wins you championships. I don't know why Spurs fans are so bent on giving up all of our best draft capital in a guy that will never be part of a championship core.The problem is that we desperately need a point guard and there are very few decent ones available.
We went over it many times, but it's slim pickings out there. Even if we talk just solid point guards who would be long-term solutions.
Tyus Jones is the only free agent worth mentioning. Brogdon the only veteran we could get for cheap.
Garland has been awful in the Orlando series. Leaving us with just Trae and DJ as options.
Other point guards that fit the timeline aren't realistic targets.
Then we have this draft and the options to choose between a bunch of non-shooters, Dillingham who would be a poor man's Trae, Topic who's another Tomas Satoransky and Sheppard who isn't even a true point guard.
Next draft is also loaded with wings.
Add the fact that point guard is by far the most difficult position to develop and trading for one seems like a no brainer since anyone we draft would be two years away and that's just not good enough for Wemby.
Trading for Trae, getting a good 3-D veteran and giving another season to Devin and Jeremy while we draft wings in 2024 and 2025 drafts seems reasonable.
Then depending on how Devin and Jeremy do you either keep them or trade them for better players.
Sorry, but Devin won't be anywhere near worth that money if he doesn't take the next step. Jeremy can't be anything more than a fan favorite glue guy if he doesn't develop a jumpshot.
It's just the sad truth of this roster. We got nothing, more or less.
Watch a few playoff games, even between teams that aren't real contenders like Orlando and Cavs and it instantly becomes obvious how much better all those teams are.
Other than Devin and obviously Wemby, noone on our roster would get a single minute on any playoff team.
I guess Tre would get some minutes with the Suns, but that says way more about them.
Aggressive perimeter defense around an all time rim protector is a cheat code. That is why they don't see this midget as a fit.
There‘s no way Pop constructs a roster without a defensive liability. Zero. The guy was in love with Bryn Forbes, Marco Belinelli and Patty Mills. , he played those 3 alongside each other at times
It's going to be an interesting offseason:
ESPN's Tim MacMahon mentioned on Windhorst's podcast today that he's talked to people who know Wemby, and that Wemby is "intrigued" by the idea of adding Trae Young. He did mention that there is a difference between being "intrigued" and "pounding the table and demanding..."
ESPN drives narratives. They've been begging to get Young to the Spurs for a while.
"Intrigued" sounds like a word you use to be diplomatic, and to not hurt anyone's feelings.
I can see Antetokoumpo being a reason, my argument is that Lillard is not the only way, unless he specifically said it's Lillard or I am out, which I doubt he did.
Honestly not sure how we came to this, I think I misread and mixed up the argument being offensive rating. But not having a good half court offence wasn't that big an issue when the Bucks won a le, because their defence held up. Now with Middleton and Holiday aging, they have lost a step. Their bench also got shorter during the last few years. My issue was how taking Lillard to boost up their offence while ignoring the defence, which was their bread and butter, was a faulty strategy, like how the Suns got Shaq to help with their post scoring.
Apologies for not being clear, but I am talking about how Trae got a high assist ratio, and it's with him having the ball in his hands. He is responsible for a high % of the Hawk's FGs through assists because he has the ball in his hands all the time, and that how the Hawks offence works.
I love it how the guys supporting your side is unbiased, but that aside, I am not against Trae if the price is right, but a) it won't happen, and b) his contract is a huge red flag. Trae doesn't really have much trade value, at least not as much as the pro-Trae camp thinks. If he did, he would've been traded by now.
I'm not sure Young is in a position to demand a trade so much as the Hawks want to get rid of him. They play much better without him, underscored by how bad he was in the play in this year. I think he could go to the FO and say he wants a trade and they'll say, "Bro, we're trying."
he has an early termination clause in his contract for 2026, he doesn't have to do . If they can't agree to an extension by the 2025 offseason they will have to trade him to get at least something back.
They really have to resolve things this summer, or teams won’t give them in 2025 with him likely a one year rental at that point.
Lillard was the only elite half court offensive creator available.
No, as I've said, the Bucks half court offense was an issue in the playoffs even when they won the le. They only did so because the path cleared. It was not a repeatable formula and to their credit they realized it, instead of blaming their recent flameouts on injuries.
When I say "unbiased", I'm saying I (and it seems some others) aren't Young fans or proponents necessarily, but are able to take that out of the equation and analyze it fairly from both perspectives instead of seeing red every time his name is brought up.
The thing is did the bucks need an elite half court offence? Especially considering how badly it will hurt their defence. Having a Jrue holiday, Middleton and Giannis surrounded by shooters is a good enough half court offence.
For Trae, I’m not his fan, nor a hater, he really has a huge amount of red flags and the failed lillard experiment just adds to it. Granted we don’t have to give away a Jrue level talent, and him in place of branham wontnhirt much defensively (may even be an upgrade), but the model of a Trae like ball dominant no defense playing player doesn’t look like winning basketball to me. I can see him as a potential trade chip if we can get him for cheap, but his contract kills his trade value.
Yes, again it was always their undoing in the playoffs and almost was even the year they won, with the path cleared.
The "failed Lillard experiment" is because he appears post prime now, he was having family issues exacerbated by the late and unexpected off season move to the Bucks, they had no POA defender and Middleton was in and out and rarely playing regular minutes.
Trade for Trae. Wemby makes up for defense. Draft a 3 and D or acquire via trade/FA. Playoff team.
Not if Atlanta thinks they can draft a good center to pair with Young and Spurs FO thinks they have enough good pieces w/ 4th and 8th picks
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