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You're a libertarian?
I'm sorry for thinking all those nasty things about you.
You're not a bad guy, after all!
Hundreds die every year in SUV's. They don't make you safer only make you think you are safer. When your time is up a Hummer won't save your ass.
You're a libertarian?
I'm sorry for thinking all those nasty things about you.
You're not a bad guy, after all!
Sorry guy, if driven safelty, an SUV is safer than a car (average). A Hummer (H1) is safer than most SUVs.
Death doesn't give a what you drive.
Thanks desflood
gopher im a libertarian and i disagree with everything youve ever said
Even the pro-Spurs posts?
Until you factor in propensity for roll-overs...
Crash tests are all well and good, but they are far from the only measure of safety.
Wrong, roll overs only account for a small percentage of crashes in SUVs. They account for a larger percentage of deaths from vehicle accidents in SUVs compared to cars. The part that really stands out is how many of these deaths were caused by not wearing a seat belt. More than half could have been prevented by using a seat belt.
As for the thread topic,
I joined the military and was fully prepared to die for the cons ution, and as I have gotten older, I have only gotten more firm in my beliefs that the ideas and ideals embodied in that do ent are the most worthy ones for a government.
While I fully acknowledge that the military is not for everybody, I find the current administrations avoidance of Vietnam ( "other priorities" Cheney and GW "what me show up?" Bush) irritating, and emblematic of the priorities of those who are in power.
If you want to be really safe, drive something like a full-size Buick Park Avenue or similar vehicle.
Heh, I realize that USAA has it's headquarters here, so I am probably gonna end up trying to talk facts with someone who might actually know their , so I will readily admit to not being an expert in actuarial statistics.
Roll-overs may "only account for a small percentage" of SUV crashes, but if that percentage is higher to a statistically signifant degree then, that one aspect of safety favors vehicles with lower centers of gravity.
The seat belt thing should hold true over both types of vehicles, yes? "More than half" is relevant to the topic only if it is different than sedans.
And if you are talking death rates, one has to isolate several factors in analysing the data.
For example:
If it is found that 15% of all crash deaths are found to be passenger or drivers in an SUV, that would imply that SUV's are safer, right? Not exactly.
Add another bit of data for consideration: 5% of all vehicles are SUVs. This would imply exactly the opposite of the first conclusion, because the rate of death is so much higher. (the preceding statistics were pulled out of my ass for the sake of explanation)
There is also a whole bunch of other confounding factors, such as the demographics of the drivers. Young, single males tend to kill themselves at much higher rates, so if your vehicle is primarily driven by young single males, your vehicle will look much less safe on paper.
Crash tests aren't the only measure of safety, but it is hard to argue with the fact that they have much higher centers of gravity and will roll over at lower speeds that just about any sedan.
note: RG has taken a couple courses in statistics and gotten A's in them. I like math.
My point was not clearly explained. Sorry.
My point is this:Vehicle weight and the risk of death: Because vehicle size and weight are so closely related, it shouldn’t be surprising that their effects on driver death rates are similar. In each group (cars, SUVs, pickups) the heavier vehicles, like bigger ones, generally had lower death rates. The rate in the lightest SUVs, for example, was more than twice as high as in the heaviest SUVs.
“Pound for pound across the vehicle types, cars almost always have lower death rates than either pickups or SUVs. This generally is because the SUVs and pickups have much higher rates of death in single-vehicle rollover crashes,” Lund explains.
In some weight groups, the death rates in cars were dramatically lower. For example, the rate in cars weighing 3,501 to 4,000 pounds was about half of the rates in pickups or SUVs of similar weight. The exception was light pickups, which had relatively low rates compared with cars or SUVs weighing about the same. “There’s no ready explanation for this exception,” Lund says. “It probably has something to do with how light pickups are driven and their use patterns compared with larger and heavier pickups.”
Rates differ among similar vehicles: Besides these broad death rate differences across vehicle groups, the rates varied within body style and size groups. In almost every size group of two-door and four-door cars, for example, the death rate for the worst vehicle was at least twice as high as the rate for the best vehicle.
Consider the Infiniti G20’s rate of 46 deaths per million registered years, which was much lower than rates for other small four-door cars. The Chevrolet Cavalier’s rate was 162 per million, and the Pontiac Sunfire’s was 160. The upper confidence bound for the G20’s death rate is well below the lower confidence bounds for the other two cars.
“This means that the lower death rate for the G20 wasn’t due to chance,” Lund says. A more extreme example involves midsize four wheel-drive SUVs. The Toyota 4Runner had only 12 driver deaths per million registered years during 2000-03. This compares with 134 deaths per million for the two door Ford Explorer and 119 per million for the Land Rover Discovery Series II.
Single- versus multiple-vehicle crashes: In many vehicle groups, driver death rates are split fairly evenly between single- and multiple-vehicle crashes. But there are exceptions. Most driver deaths in large four-door cars and minivans occurred in crashes involving other vehicles. In contrast, in pickup trucks and SUVs of almost every size more deaths occurred in single-vehicle crashes. In large four-wheel-drive SUVs, for example, the death rate was almost three times as high in single-vehicle crashes as it was in collisions involving two or more vehicles (14 deaths per million compared with 40).
Rollover crashes: Eleven vehicles, all pickups or SUVs, had more than 75 driver deaths per million in single-vehicle rollover crashes. This is in large part because pickup trucks and SUVs have relatively high centers of gravity compared with cars. The Ford Excursion is a very large SUV with a high rollover death rate. This is at least in part because its occupancy rate tends to be high, which raises its center of gravity even higher.
The vehicle with the very highest driver death rate in single-vehicle rollover crashes was the two-door, two-wheel-drive Chevrolet Blazer. The 251 deaths per million for this SUV compare with an average of 63 for all midsize two-wheel-drive SUVs, 34 for four-wheel drive versions, and 28 for all vehicles in the study.
Not all midsize SUVs had high death rates in single-vehicle rollovers. The Lexus RX 300, Toyota 4Runner, Nissan Pathfinder, and Acura MDX had 6 or fewer rollover deaths per million vehicle years. Both the RX 300 and the 4Runner are equipped with electronic stability control, which has been shown to significantly reduce the risk of fatal single-vehicle crashes including rollovers
Not one driver death occurred in a rollover of the RX 300 or four-wheel-drive Toyota RAV4, a small SUV. This experience doesn’t mean the rates for these vehicles will be zero every year, but it does mean very low rates can be expected.
“Small SUVs have had high rollover death rates in previous years, but as the RAV4 indicates this may be changing. One reason may be that the drivers are changing,” Lund points out. “It used to be that younger people, especially young men, drove small SUVs, but now many women drive them, including older women. In addition, as vehicle manufacturers redesign their small SUVs they’re addressing the rollover problem in the designs, making these vehicles more stable and less likely to roll over.”
If you can learn to drive an average SUV safely, it is a safer vehicle than most average cars. Most of the deaths in SUVs are from single vehicle accidents. I feel like I am a good driver. I fear other drivers impacting me, more than losing the control of the vehicle I am driving. In accidents between average size cars and average size SUVs, the SUVs are statistically safer than the cars.
Many deaths in SUVs can be contributed to the following factors:
People who aren't familiar with driving SUVs and the differences of their handling to that of cars.
Reckless drivers who take the "styling" of the larger SUV too far with road rage or "bullying".
SUVs tend to carry more passengers than cars.
A similar story was shown on tv a year or so ago that talked about the dangers of passenger vans. There had been several accidents involving passenger vans, the 15 person models specifically, that had people talking about their safety. It can be argued that many of the accidents involved drivers that weren't regular drivers of larger vehicles, and that many happened on long trips on unfamiliar roads or driving conditions.
Almost any vehicle can be driven safely. There are few exceptions. People need to have better driving habits and know the limitations of their own vehicles. Oh, and wear a ing seat belt.
A story of two young Americans - one a hero, the other a chicken-hawk
Washington PostFLAGSTAFF, Ariz. -- Shaded by a towering blue spruce in Wheeler Park stands a gray granite monument that honors this city's men and women who have died in combat from the Spanish-American War to, as the memorial reads, "Iraqi Freedom." The name of Lance Cpl. Marty G. Mortenson was etched into the stone on the eve of Armed Forces Day in May. A month earlier, on April 20, Mortenson had been killed by a roadside bomb in Iraq.
Just a few months before he died, Mortenson sent his mother an e-mail: I am really sorry about your birthday . . . I am so stressed out that it is really bring me down. . . . I have had so much on my mind . . . going off to war 4 the 3rd time isn't easy. Mortenson was on his third tour -- his third pump, in Marine jargon -- in Iraq. He had spent his 20th, 21st and 22nd birthdays in Iraq. Before he left on his last tour, he told a friend in California: "It's like three strikes, you're out. I have a feeling I'm not going to come home."
A generation ago in the Vietnam War, grunts had to survive 13 months and then knew they were going home for good. But the nature of an all-volunteer military has changed deployments and expectations for America's troops.....
Compare and contrast...
The NationBy the time I encountered Cory Bray, a towering senior from the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School of Business, the beer was flowing freely. "The people opposed to the war aren't putting their asses on the line," Bray boomed from beside the bar. Then why isn't he putting his ass on the line? "I'm not putting my ass on the line because I had the opportunity to go to the number-one business school in the country," he declared, his voice rising in defensive anger, "and I wasn't going to pass that up."
And besides, being a College Republican is so much more fun than counterinsurgency warfare. Bray recounted the pride he and his buddies had felt walking through the center of campus last fall waving a giant American flag, wearing cowboy boots and hats with the letters B-U-S-H painted on their bare chests. "We're the big guys," he said. "We're the ones who stand up for what we believe in. The College Democrats just sit around talking about how much they hate Bush. We actually do ."
Check out this statement from the chicken-hawks web site...
Cory BrayMy name is Cory Bray. I'm hoping you've picked that up by now. I'm 19 years old and go to the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania. Like most of you, some stuff and some people really piss me off. This is the place to let others know what that stuff is and who those people are. The best part is that it's online so I won't have liberals lined up outside my computer protesting me. At least I hope not.
There are two reasons for this website. The first is to have fun. This creates a forum of people who are more likely to know each other than most other message board / news sites on the internet. The second reason is to get CoryBray.com's search engine ranking up really high so when I'm a millionaire, I can exploit my fame and become a billionaire. That probably won't happen though because apparently drug addicts and illegal aliens need my money more than I do, right Richman?
Making fun of this guy is like booing at the Special Olympics.
dam i would crush that chodes face
as long as he's not that huge weightroom attendant that works at the VictoriaYMCA, i could take him
Dan, can you back up that the lance corporal was a liberal?
Doubtful.
Speaking from my own life experience, growing up poor does not mean growing up a liberal.
i love the le of this thread!!
an nbadan classic
would you rather be young and conservative or old and conservative
old and conservative
so i least i can say i joined when my party WAS the party of fiscal conservation and small goverment
noone in here truely knows what its like to be young and conservative. only those that are young and those that are conservative are totally brainwashed, and they know not what they do.
That's bold talk for a one-eyed fat man.
If the young, conservative voter is a place for you to focus the extreme bile that you have towards society, good for you.
Most of my current political views are direct results of my travels abroad and interacting with ins utionalized socialism as it exists in the UK and Continental Europe.
On the inevitable issue - the war in Iraq - Clinton advocated U.S. involvement for as long as it takes to help the fledging government there establish itself and until Iraqis can defend their country. Iraqis are dying in big numbers, but they turned out to vote in bigger numbers than Americans do, he noted.
"We are where we are," he said. "I wouldn't give it up yet. I think we ought to stick in there and make it work."
so I guess bill clinton is a big liberal chicken hawk?
i dont know what it is
but presidents by definition cant be chicken hawks during their term in office
and
i dont know what is it
but when something good happens, its because of bush
and when something bad happens, its because of clinton
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