Ok so Treyvon supposedly had him pinned to the ground. Before that happened, did Zimmerman establish himself as a watchman? Treyvon probably saw some guy following him and Zimmerman walked up to him when he was already on high alert and confrontation ensued. What if Zimmerman pointed a gun at him and that caused the confrontation? If he was able to get unpinned or Treyvon let him go he should've ran away since he was the one that initiated the whole thing right? You can't claim self defense just because a plan backfired on you.
My point is that what you said may be a fact, but what was the cause? The fact that we definitely do know is that Treyvon was unarmed and stalked by an armed guy then killed. That should be enough for an arrest no?
What I don't get is, if Zimmerman really thought Martin was a dangerous guy who was carrying a weapon and was up to no good, why did he follow this dangerous guy after being told cops were on their way and being told not to follow Martin. It's obvious he initiated whatever altercation happened between him and Martin when he had no reason to do so. This was an extremely over zealous neighborhood watch guy who wanted an adrenalin rush so he decided to play vigilante.
Yeah exactly. Idk how you can claim self defense when you're the one who approached someone for no reason other than the fact he was a black kid in a white neighborhood, AFTER the cops told you not to follow him. The 911 call is decisive evidence that Zimmerman initiated the altercation and that Martin initially tried to run from Zimmerman. Hard to claim self defense as the guy chasing the other guy.
They interviewed Zimmerman for a few hours that night at the police station and the investigation has yet to find any holes in his story. Witness' testimony has Zimmerman not pulling his gun until after he was on his back getting pummeled and screamed for help.
So many people here are arguing the facts of the case rather than concentrating on the endgame. Some hoodrat was killed...the world is now a safer place--for me and my possessions.
After he confronted the kid who was tryin to get away from him.
The cops never told him not to follow. It was a dispatcher and the conversation went like this:
"are you following him?"
"yeah"
"ok, we don't need you to do that."
He followed Martin because there had been 8 recent burglaries and many of the suspects resembled Martin, young black guys. Let's not pretend it's so unusual.
And what I don't understand is why the cops would even come? Is the black guy committing a crime while Zimmerman was talking to the dispatcher?
How is it a safer place when there is a murderer still free?
He was stupid for confronting him, but do stupid people have no right to self defense? If Martin would have beat Zimmerman in a coma, or worse, would that have been justified simply because Zimmerman wanted to make sure this kid wasn't up to no good? He was part of the neighborhood watch and he lived in the neighborhood.
Like I said, both of them made big mistakes.
A simple conversation would have avoided all of this:
Zimmerman: "Hi, I'm part of the neighborhood watch and I just want to make sure everything is cool."
Martin: "Yeah, man, I'm here visiting my dad and his girlfriend."
Who knows what Zimmerman said, but Martin thought it'd be a better to beat that ass.
A neighborhood watch guy is not by any stretch of the imagination a figure of authority, and he's not vested with the power to demand cooperation from anyone he thinks looks su ious. Martin wasn't on his property, and he was in no way obligated to cooperate with some fat wannabe cop who asked him what he was doing there.
If Zimmerman was really worried for his safety or worried about the possibility Martin had a gun, he wouldn't have kept chasing after Martin. He woulda called the cops, made sure the cops knew where to go/who to look for, then he immediately would have gone home and locked every door in his house.
This case NEEDS to go through trial.
He saw a skinny kid that he out weighed by over 100lbs..plus he was packing heat so he felt emboldened it's what's cowards do
as long as it results in the death penalty or life in prison w/o parole..
Fair enough, he's not an authority figure, but martin's inability to conduct a simple, respectable conversation with someone resulted in his death.
And as far as facts go, the two were walking, there was never a foot chase. Zimmerman was trying to keep an eye on him and was actually asked to report what he could see to the dispatcher. You should check out the calls and read the police report.
What if it was Tim Duncan's kid..that changes the game right?
Zimmerman: "Ohh he's running"
A Florida representative weighs in.
And when that happened he reported back that he had lost sight of Martin. Martin also told his GF, who he was on the phone with, that he could no longer see Zimmerman. There's a pretty big gap in the story from there. The GF says a conversation started and words were exchanged. Zimmerman says he was jumped from behind.Zimmerman: "Ohh he's running"
I don't really believe that part of Zimmerman's story, but the GF said she was hung up on so I don't know how she would know the truth either.
regardless dude his toast...if not now then eventually...He won't be allowed to live his life again...Case in point...
Members of the New Black Panther Party are offering a $10,000 reward for the "capture" of George Zimmerman, leader Mikhail Muhammad announced during a protest in Sanford today.
When asked whether he was inciting violence, Muhammad replied defiantly saying: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."http://www.fox40.com/news/nationworl...,4927694.storyThe bounty announcement came moments after members of the group called for the mobilization of 5,000 black men to capture George Zimmerman, the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who shot Trayvon Martin last month.
Muhammad said members of his group would search for Zimmerman themselves in Maitland and Jacksonville --
Dispatcher: "Are you following him"?
Zimmerman: "Yes"
Thank you Koolaid for your contributions.
When the person you're trying to claim self defense against was running away from you and was unarmed, meanwhile you were armed and you felt like chasing him down and threatening him with questions as if you were a cop, then no, you don't have the right to self defense.
Last year my car was broken into, I ran outside with a baseball bat and chased the guy for a few hundred feet, he then turned into a dark alley where he prolly had his cholos waiting and I knew that I'd be asking for trouble if I continued to follow him. The difference is that he actually committed robbery against me, Martin wasn't even guilty of that.
It being justified and it being something Zimmerman can't claim self defense against are two completely different things. How is Martin supposed to no some fat ordinary looking Mexican was simply making sure Martin wasn't up to no good? You're acting as if Zimmerman was a cop wearing a uniform that gave him authority and identified himself as someone simply trying to make the neighborhood safe.
How exactly is Martin supposed to know that? Do members of the neighborhood watch carry badges that enable them to ask whatever question they want to someone passing through? If I saw this guy approaching me when I was completely innocent and unarmed:
, my first instict wouldn't be "Oh! This must be a friendly neighborhood watchman just checking to make sure I'm not robbing anybody." How the was Martin supposed to know that the neighborhood had 8 recent burglaries, the thought of burglary or being suspected of burglary never crossed Martin's mind since he wasn't in the neighborhood to burglarize.
What should Martin have done differently other than miraculously know that the fat be@ner approaching him was a member of the neighborhood watch? If that guy was chasing after me after I had run away from him and was greeting me wit hostility when I'd done nothing wrong, I would have also resorted to violence.
Hmmm, so you're saying Zimmerman should have right off the bat announced he was a member of the neighborhood watch. Weird, I thought being a member of the neighborhood watch vested him with the power to act however he wanted towards anyone he deemed su ious. Surely that kind of power doesn't need to be announced.
Jag, the kid was running from him? Why? He felt threatened and Zimmerman still kept looking for him and found him again. Imagine the heightened state he must've been in. He probably feared for his life!
After they instigate the altercation in the first place? He has to go to jail.
So? Not only did he follow him, even though the police told him that he didn't have to, HE GOT OUT OF HIS CAR and confronted Martin, who was trying to get away from him. He should have waited for the cops. Period.If Martin would have beat Zimmerman in a coma, or worse, would that have been justified simply because Zimmerman wanted to make sure this kid wasn't up to no good? He was part of the neighborhood watch and he lived in the neighborhood.
And Zimmerman should pay for his mistake with jail time.Like I said, both of them made big mistakes.
Do you know what would have been even better? If the wannabe cop didn't follow Martin in the first place.A simple conversation would have avoided all of this:
Zimmerman: "Hi, I'm part of the neighborhood watch and I just want to make sure everything is cool."
Martin: "Yeah, man, I'm here visiting my dad and his girlfriend."
Who knows what Zimmerman said, but Martin thought it'd be a better to beat that ass.
If Zimmerman goes free, that means that people would be able to follow somebody su iously at night, confront them, and then shoot the person they are antagonizing in the name of "self-defense." It's not self-defense when the shooter is creating the conflict in the first place.
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