Did I just get suckered into trying to prove a negative?
I challenge you to prove that it is only 26 to a reasonable degree.
Fair enough, there is indeed a potential for group think, and I would be less than intellectually honest if I were not to accede as much.
Give me your list of 26 names first.
Did I just get suckered into trying to prove a negative?
I challenge you to prove that it is only 26 to a reasonable degree.
Sea ice melt in the Arctic is likely done for the season. Depending on the data source, 2011 will have reached the 2nd lowest min or set a new record for the lowest extent.
When ice retreats and various plants, tools, and artifacts are found, what does that mean?
http://tohatchacrow.blogspot.com/201...xposed-by.html
"It's like a time machine-the ice has not been this small for many, many centuries," said Lars Piloe, a Danish scientist heading a team of "snow patch archaeologists" on newly bare ground 1,850 meters (6,070 ft) above sea level in mid-Norway.
Specialized hunting sticks, bows and arrows and even a 3,400-year-old leather shoe have been among finds since 2006 from a melt in the Jotunheimen mountains, the home of the "Ice Giants" of Norse mythology.
As water streams off the Juvfonna ice field, Piloe and two other archaeologists -- working in a science opening up due to climate change -- collect "scare sticks" they reckon were set up 1,500 years ago in rows to drive reindeer toward archers.
But time is short as the Ice Giants' stronghold shrinks.
"Our main focus is the rescue part," Piloe said on newly exposed rocks by the ice. "There are many ice patches. We can only cover a few...We know we are losing artefacts everywhere."
Freed from an ancient freeze, wood rots in a few years. And rarer feathers used on arrows, wool or leather crumble to dust in days unless taken to a laboratory and stored in a freezer.
Jotunheimen is unusual because so many finds are turning up at the same time -- 600 artefacts at Juvfonna alone.
Other finds have been made in glaciers or permafrost from Alaska to Siberia. Italy's iceman "Otzi," killed by an arrow wound 5,000 years ago, was found in an Alpine glacier in 1991. "Ice Mummies" have been discovered in the Andes.
Patrick Hunt, of Stanford University in California who is trying to discover where Carthaginian general Hannibal invaded Italy in 218 BC with an army and elephants, said there was an "alarming rate" of thaw in the Alps.
"This is the first summer since 1994 when we began our Alpine field excavations above 8,000 ft that we have not been inundated by even one day of rain, sleet and snow flurries," he said.
"I expect we will see more 'ice patch archaeology discoveries'," he said. Hannibal found snow on the Alpine pass he crossed in autumn, according to ancient writers.
Glaciers are in retreat from the Andes to the Alps, as a likely side-effect of global warming caused by human emissions of greenhouse gases, the U.N. panel of climate experts says.
The panel's credibility has suffered since its 2007 report exaggerated a thaw by saying Himalayan glaciers might vanish by 2035. It has stuck to its main conclusion that it is "very likely" that human activities are to blame for global warming.
"Over the past 150 years we have had a worldwide trend of glacial retreat," said Michael Zemp, director of the Swiss-based World Glacier Monitoring Service. While many factors were at play, he said "the main driver is global warming."
In Norway, "some ice fields are at their minimum for at least 3,000 years," said Rune Strand Oedegaard, a glacier and permafrost expert from Norway's Gjoevik University College.
The front edge of Jovfunna has retreated about 18 meters (60 ft) over the past year, exposing a band of artefacts probably from the Iron Age 1,500 years ago, according to radiocarbon dating. Others may be from Viking times 1,000 years ago.
Juvfonna, about 1 km across on the flank of Norway's highest peak, Galdhoepiggen, at 2,469 meters, also went through a less drastic shrinking period in the 1930s, Oedegaard said.
Inside the Juvfonna ice, experts have carved a cave to expose layers of ice dating back 6,000 years. Some dark patches turned out to be ancient reindeer droppings -- giving off a pungent smell when thawed out.
Ice fields like Juvfonna differ from glaciers in that they do not slide much downhill. That means artefacts may be where they were left, giving an insight into hunting techniques.
On Juvfonna, most finds are "scare sticks" about a meter long. Each has a separate, flapping piece of wood some 30 cm long that was originally tied at the top. The connecting thread is rarely found since it disintegrates within days of exposure.
"It's a strange feeling to be tying a string around this stick just as someone else did maybe 1,500 years ago," said Elling Utvik Wammer, a archaeologist on Piloe's team knotting a tag to a stick before storing it in a box for later study.
All the finds are also logged with a GPS satellite marker before being taken to the lab for examination.
The archaeologists reckon they were set up about two meters apart to drive reindeer toward hunters. In summer, reindeer often go onto snow patches to escape parasitic flies.
Such a hunt would require 15 to 20 people, Piloe said, indicating that Norway had an organized society around the start of the Dark Ages, 1,500 years ago. Hunters probably needed to get within 20 meters of a reindeer to use an iron-tipped arrow.
"You can nearly feel the hunter here," Piloe said, standing by a makeshift wall of rocks exposed in recent weeks and probably built by an ancient archer as a hideaway.
I'm curious as to how many artifacts are being found in the arctic when sea ice retreats.....
That goes without saying, but this doesn't answer my question.
That you are trying to make the same failed strawman argument again?
The answer to your question is that if artifacts are found under the ice then at some time in the past, there was no ice.
You will then go on to say that all changes in climate, including what we are experiencing now are natural, and that scientists who ignore the fact that we are currently within historical limits of our climate are ingoring this.
This is a strawman logical fallacy, because the scientists who study our climate don't dispute that temperatures we are experiencing are that far out of historical extremes.
It is the rate of change that the scientists are pointing out as having human causes not that current climates have never occured historically.
Since you pushed it, this then becomes your, what? 14th logical fallacy?
It sucks when people just dance around your question, doesn't it?
Do you have a link to a paper(s) that show the current rate of change is unusual?
I have a lot of them actually.
Care to share?
OK random, that is a different study than I was thinking of. It goes back to regurgitating what you are taught, even when wrong.
At one time, most people thought the world was flat. That's what they were taught.
Far better to bypass education entirely. Less indoctrination. And what-not.
Let's look at the last frame of that animated gif
If you look at the cycle -- and, yes, there is a clear cycle -- we're due for some glaciation.
The Gore-a-thon on WUWT
Wish I had time to post all the panels because I know, not many of the alarmists in here will bother; but, the cartoonist created a panel for each hour of the "Gore-a-thon" and, it's hilarious...
Funny stuff.Where’s the warming?
With who?
With all of us.
Okay, but I'm having a pretty involved discussion with ElNono, over in another thread about how unreasonable it is to make assertions without supporting them.
Sure you want to be on his list?
Right now, you're still on his list of Reasonables.
El Nono can take me off his list if he feels it necessary. It doesn't change the fact that I have no desire to provide you with the links to studies.
on deciding to be irrelevant. Kudoes. That's a brave decision.
On deciding to be irrelevant to you, Yonivore. It may bruise your ego to learn that is not a big step in either direction for me.
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