Need opinion from the objective masses

[barbacoataco]

The games that Mavs fans are complaining about the Spurs didn't have a big advantage in FT attempts. And the Spurs are driving to the basket more, while the Mavs are more of a jump shooting 3 pt team.

If there is some "conspiracy" the refs are somehow doing it while giving more or less equal FT attempts to both teams?

[Tmac&Luther]

You would've absolutely hated watching the Celtics-Lakers battles of the 80's. The NBA was VERY physical back in the day. That on Dirk would've been comletely ignored in that era. Those are little girl fouls.

Umm actually I LOVED WATCHING BASKETBALL IN THE 80's, but that has NOTHING to do with this thread.

Would I love basketball to be that physical again....yes

But guess what buddy, it's not and you're not even making a relative point to this topic by bringing it up. If the NBA let everybody be physical to everybody (like they did in the 80's) that's one thing, but when they don't allow players to be physical to everybody and just against one player....that's called inconsistentcy......which is called TY OFFICIATING. Regardless of how physical they were back in the 80s which has absolutely nothing to do with the inconsistency of today's officiating.

If they let everybody beat the out of each other then go ahead....as long as it's consistent I don't give a rats ass, but they aren't even officiating their own rules...no other league does that. Every other league calls the game by the rule that is written. The NBA is the only league where different rules apply to different players and it's ty. LeBron could walk all the way to NY and he would never be called for traveling.

[Tmac&Luther]

What do you want, a foul called in every play? Because if we want to look at every detail then their is a foul on every play. The Rockets are one of the more aggresive teams, which I respect. The aggressive teams tend to get the calls. That is the unwritten rule. If you can't figure that out or you can't agree with it then we might as well put 10 guys 5 foot 5 who can shoot free throws on the court because that is all that is left.

The problem occurs when their is a huge free throw disparity for a home court team or a jump shooting team, then everything is thrown into question. The one thing I do agree is we need more continuity from ref to ref on how the game is called.

I want consistency.....that is all. I'm not trying to defend Dirk or the Mavs, I'm blasting the worst officiated league in professional sports and alot of my complaints have nothing to do with this game, but the entire league/games in general.

There is absolutely no way anybody can defend the NBA officials......everybody knows they suck ass.

[badfish22]

Defintley some fouls in there. The 3rd quarter was full of bull calls/nocalls against the Mavs tbh.

Spur Fan creates thread asking for objective opinions

Spur Fan then gets butthurt when those objective opinions don't help their argument.

Referees aren't the reason Mavs are down 3-1.

+1

[Cry Havoc]

Spur Fan creates thread asking for objective opinions

Keyword.

Spur Fan then gets butthurt when those objective opinions don't help their argument.

The only person in this thread that's butthurt is a Celtics fan. Calling other people re s when your own knowledge of NBA rules is severely limited is not a way to get a point across. Most Spurs fans have acknowledged that there was a foul or two in that possession, but several non-Spurs fans have said that it was within the flow of the game and the officiating needs to be more consistent for both teams.

The officials didn't force the Mavs to start clanking every shot in the 3rd quarter. They certainly didn't make them a team reliant on JJ Barea for dribble-drive penetration.

[mogrovejo]

What an unbelievable bunch of re s. How is it possible that so many alleged "basketball fans" aren't even aware of some basic urles of the game?

Clearly you have zero room to be telling people about whether they no the rules or not, when you think that any time a defensive player touches an offensive player who's faced up that it's a "hand-check" foul.

Says who? Please quote me saying that. If you can't, you're just shamelessly using a strawman. Can you quote me or not? Direct question.

The rule in question here is "the handchecking rule". How hard is this to understand?

MCDyess fouls Dirk there.

The playoffs are physical. If those are 5 fouls on Dice, Dampier and Haywood should not ever see action past the second quarter because of the way they play Duncan.

Unbelievable. These guys have no idea that the game in the low post is refereed in a different way. Un ingbelievable.

[mogrovejo]

Thanks for confirming what I suspected. You're an idiot who's probably rehashing someone else's posts from another forum.

Dampier always initiates contact with Duncan using his hands. It doesn't matter whether the player is in the low post or above the long elbow. You quoted the rule yourself ... tell me where it distinguishes between low post and perimeter.

mogrovejo post #1:


mogrovejo post #2:


You can't own yourself any better than that, folks.

Please, somebody tell me this guy is trolling!?!?!?

IT DOES MATTER IF A PLAYER IS ABOVE THE ELBOW OR IN THE LOW POST,
STUPID.

HOW CAN YOU PRETEND TO BE A BASKETBALL FAN AND DON'T KNOW THIS?

I only quoted the part of the rules applicable to the situation.

The rules to Dampier guarding Duncan in the low post are different!! Dampier has his forearm on Duncan and he can do that! McDyess has his hands all over Dirk, puts an hand on Dirk's back when he's on the move and he can't do that!

It's a foul.

[JamStone]

In my opinion, there was a foul by Parker on his double team. It looked pretty obvious he smacked Dirk. Other than that, you could argue that Dice got him maybe once, but it's the type of foul that isn't criminal if it isn't called. It just looked like good, tough defense. Sure you could argue Dirk got fouled once, maybe twice. But I don't think it was egregious that no foul was called. For me, that's just good, tough playoff defense. I'd rather see the officials allow players to play a little physical in the playoffs without ticky tacky fouls getting called all the time.

As for the series in general, I think it's been great. I do think the Spurs have the obvious advantage at this point and should win the series. But, I also think that the series has been pretty even and not necessarily indicative of a 3-1 series. The last two games were pretty close and could have gone either way. The Spurs have earned each of their wins, but the series has been closer than 3-1.

[mogrovejo]

I thought the first 2 guys were just homers pretending they weren't seeing the contact, but afterall some of these guys just don't know the rules and think that the position of a player on the court doesn't matter.

How the heck can you watch a basketball game without knowing this rules? Don't these guys find intriguing, if they think that, say, Dampier's contract can be equated to contact from a perimeter player, how refs call games? How perimeter players get so many touch fouls but post players are in contact every time down the floor and the refs don't call it!?! They've never questioned that? They think it's the refs deciding subjectively?! This is probably why they complain Duncan doesn't get enough fouls.

Unbelievable.

[Cry Havoc]

Please, somebody tell me this guy is trolling!?!?!?

IT DOES MATTER IF A PLAYER IS ABOVE THE ELBOW OR IN THE LOW POST,
STUPID.

HOW CAN YOU PRETEND TO BE A BASKETBALL FAN AND DON'T KNOW THIS?

I only quoted the part of the rules applicable to the situation.

The rules to Dampier guarding Duncan in the low post are different!! Dampier has his forearm on Duncan and he can do that! McDyess has his hands all over Dirk, puts an hand on Dirk's back when he's on the move and he can't do that!

It's a foul.

mogrovejo meltdown forum.

[mogrovejo]

You quoted the rule yourself ... tell me where it distinguishes between low post and perimeter.

If I do this, will you post here again, reckoning you have no idea about the basic rules of the game of basketball and are a sorry, hopeless, ignorant homer? Yes or no?

[mogrovejo]

mogrovejo meltdown forum.

So, you didn't know that the rule changes depending on where the player is on the floor?

No more officiating related arguments?

[Cry Havoc]

So, you didn't know that the rule changes depending on where the player is on the floor?

No more officiating related arguments?

Don't you think that in that play Nowitzki is holding the ball and Dice initiates contact with his hands? It seems pretty obvious to me.

You say nothing about a hand-check here. It's obvious you were referencing the fact that you think (thought) touching Dirk = a foul. Self-owned.

[mogrovejo]

The fact that McDyess initiates the contact with his hands is necessary to make it a foul. How hard is this to understand?

How many basketball games have you guys played or watched in your life? You've started this year, right?

[mogrovejo]

You say nothing about a hand-check here. It's obvious you were referencing the fact that you think (thought) touching Dirk = a foul. Self-owned.

Are you this dumb?

Why would I need to say anything about hand-check there? I only mentioned hand-check to say that if those weren't fouls, than hand-check defence would still be allowed in the NBA.

Capisce? Need a draw?

[mogrovejo]

If I do this, will you post here again, reckoning you have no idea about the basic rules of the game of basketball and are a sorry, hopeless, ignorant homer? Yes or no?

I want to know the answer Warlord.

From you to, Cry Havoc.

[Cry Havoc]

The fact that McDyess initiates the contact with his hands is necessary to make it a foul. How hard is this to understand?

How many basketball games have you guys played or watched in your life? You've started this year, right?

A fellow Celtics fan essentially called you out, mog.

"A defender may momentarily touch an opponent with his hand anywhere on the court as long as it does not affect the opponent’s movement (speed, quickness, balance, rhythm)."

You're wrong. You're just wrong. Man up and admit that you were calling people re s without fully understanding the rules.

[mogrovejo]

A fellow Celtics fan essentially called you out, mog.

"A defender may momentarily touch an opponent with his hand anywhere on the court as long as it does not affect the opponent’s movement (speed, quickness, balance, rhythm)."

You're wrong. You're just wrong. Man up and admit that you were calling people re s without fully understanding the rules.

You are re . McDyess forces Dirk to pick his dribble. Are you really saying he didn't affect the opponent's movement? And I'm not sure you understand that rule either. I suspect that you think a player must be in movement or otherwise defenders can just place their hands on him. Is that it?

Please answer my question.

[Cry Havoc]

Not even sure what you're arguing any more. My initial position stands: yes, they should have called fouls there. You can't see fouls in that video. You're hopeless. Btw, learn the rules instead of spitting nonsense like "they're called incidental contact". You don't have the slightest idea in your mind of what incidental contact is.

Incidental Contact: The mere fact that contact occurs does not mean a foul has been committed. Players are allowed to contact other players when reaching for a loose ball, or when performing normal offensive and defensive movements. The hand is considered “ part of the ball” when it is in contact with the ball and contact with a players hand when it is in contact with the ball is not a foul.

More thread fail from mogrovejo.

You are re .

[Pero]

You're wrong. You're just wrong. Man up and admit that you were calling people re s without fully understanding the rules.

He's too emotional.

[mogrovejo]

Not that I'm complaining that much, Dice has paid a high price all year to get this kind of respect when it matters (and he's one of my favorite spurs) but you'd have to be a homer to try to argue those aren't fouls.

Either a homer or someone who's learning rules by reading a message board.

[Cry Havoc]

Either a homer or someone who's learning rules by reading a message board.

On the same page of the thread you're commenting in:

Cry Havoc: Most Spurs fans have acknowledged that there was a foul or two in that possession, but several non-Spurs fans have said that it was within the flow of the game and the officiating needs to be more consistent for both teams.

Clearly Jamstone is just too much of a Spurs homer to see how Dirk was fouled 5 times in that possession.

[mogrovejo]

What's even more amazing is that jut a few days ago I had to explain how the position the offensive player has on the floor impacts the way personal fouls are called and how much contact is allowed. And yet, here we are again, with WarLord and Cry Havoc completely oblivious to the fact.

WarLord and Cry Havoc, I keep waiting for your answers. We can even make a bet. Okay?

[mogrovejo]

Sig bet, Cry Havoc»?

~ You quoted the rule yourself ... tell me where it distinguishes between low post and perimeter.

If I do this, proving that Duncan/Dampier and Dirk/Dice are two separate issues, I will own your sig till the end of the playoffs. If I'm unable to do it, you own mine.

Are you going to man up or chicken out?

[Cry Havoc]

Sig bet, Cry Havoc»?

~ You quoted the rule yourself ... tell me where it distinguishes between low post and perimeter.

If I do this, proving that Duncan/Dampier and Dirk/Dice are two separate issues, I will own your sig till the end of the playoffs. If I'm unable to do it, you own mine.

Are you going to man up or chicken out?

Why would I bet with you? You've already openly stated that you think touching another player is a foul. You've owned yourself in this thread enough. I don't need to bet with you to prove anything.