Need opinion from the objective masses

[MiamiHeat]

MORE MAV FANS FOUL CONSPIRACIES

lolk

[Warlord23]

'Tis a debate worth having. However, to anybody who has watched the NBA in the last 5 years, these calls either get made or ignored depending on the refereeing crew. On some nights, the refs make these calls and effectively induce a free throw contest. On other nights, they "let them play".

Is mogrovejo trying to tell us that all NBA games have been refereed uniformly since that rule was changed? Basketball is a tough game to officiate. Referees are criticized for turning games into free throw parades. On the other hand they are criticized for not following every rule to the letter. That's why this has remained a gray area with different ref crews calling it subjectively.

BTW, like others have said, if those are fouls, people like Dampier and Artest would have been out of a job a long while ago.

[z0sa]

Let's just be honest - the great Bruce Bowen would never have been the #12 the NBA came to know and love (heh) if they called that video's 5 fouls consistently. Yet he excelled during the period the NBA came down on contact around the perimeter, especially handchecking, so how much did he really get away with?

[mogrovejo]

lol Do you even know what hand checking is? Hand checking is impeding the movement of a player usually by extending your elbow,it's more or less a small shove. It is not placing your hand on a player. That happens on every damn play.

lol the rule that disalowed hand-checking is the same applicable here, who cares if it's a shove with the shoulder or with the palm of the hand? lol

'Tis a debate worth having. However, to anybody who has watched the NBA in the last 5 years, these calls either get made or ignored depending on the refereeing crew. On some nights, the refs make these calls and effectively induce a free throw contest. On other nights, they "let them play".

Is mogrovejo trying to tell us that all NBA games have been refereed uniformly since that rule was changed? Basketball is a tough game to officiate. Referees are criticized for turning games into free throw parades. On the other hand they are criticized for not following every rule to the letter. That's why this has remained a gray area with different ref crews calling it subjectively.

BTW, like others have said, if those are fouls, people like Dampier and Artest would have been out of a job a long while ago.

Nonsense. Nowitzki is forced to pick his dribble because Dice didnt' take his hands off him and pushes him on the back. Refs call that 9 times out of 10 and when they don't is because they screwed up - like they did here.

[Warlord23]

l
Nonsense. Nowitzki is forced to pick his dribble because Dice didnt' take his hands off him and pushes him on the back. Refs call that 9 times out of 10 and when they don't is because they screwed up - like they did here.

No they don't call it 9 times out of 10 overall. They may call it 9 times out of 10 consistently within a game, but other games they may ignore it 9 times out of 10. Dampier in particular does it all the freaking time. If they called it 9 times out of 10 he'd be fouling out in a half. Same goes for Artest.

[mogrovejo]

No they don't call it 9 times out of 10 overall. They may call it 9 times out of 10 consistently within a game, but other games they may ignore it 9 times out of 10. Dampier in particular does it all the freaking time. If they called it 9 times out of 10 he'd be fouling out in a half. Same goes for Artest.

That's not a foul in the picture. Of course Dampier does it all the freaking time. You don't know the rules.

[mogrovejo]

Spur fan think that Dampier defending Duncan posting up down low should be called the same way of Dice defending Dirk facing up above the long elbow. It's amazing.

[Tmac&Luther]

Dirk is getting the fouled out of him......I can't even deny that.

The officiating in the NBA has become a joke, it has really turned me off over the last couple of years. Basketball used to be my favorite sport, that is no longer the case. There isn't another sport in this country that has officiating that's as inconsistent as the NBA.....it a joke.

[LnGrrrR]

I guess I'll weigh in.

Number 2 could have been a called foul. I mean, I don't think you're allowed to shove the arm of someone passing.

Number 5 could also have been called. He definitely impedes Dirk's progress by putting his arm/shoulder into him.

I wouldn't expect 1, 3 or 4 to get called in the playoffs. I didn't see the game, so I don't know how they were letting them play, which would affect 2 and 5.

[Cry Havoc]

That's not a foul in the picture. Of course Dampier does it all the freaking time. You don't know the rules.

Clearly you have zero room to be telling people about whether they no the rules or not, when you think that any time a defensive player touches an offensive player who's faced up that it's a "hand-check" foul.

Dirk is getting the fouled out of him......I can't even deny that.

The playoffs are physical. If those are 5 fouls on Dice, Dampier and Haywood should not ever see action past the second quarter because of the way they play Duncan.

This is the moment Dirk catches the ball.

Is this a guy with his back to the basket or with his feet below the FTLE?

According to Spur fan, yes.

ing re s.

A defender may momentarily touch an opponent with his hand anywhere on the court as long as it does not affect the opponent’s movement (speed, quickness, balance, rhythm).

Annnnd you don't know basic NBA rules. Nicely done.

[LnGrrrR]

A defender may momentarily touch an opponent with his hand anywhere on the court as long as it does not affect the opponent’s movement (speed, quickness, balance, rhythm).

That's the main reason I could see number 5 being argued. It certainly does seem that McDyess impedes the progress of Dirk there, and Dirk isn't in the paint/doesn't have his back to the basket.

[DarrinS]

I know that Mavs and Suns fans wish that the NBA playoffs were played like a game of HORSE. If so, the Mavs and Suns would have multiple les. Unfortunately for them, the NBA does allow the other team to play defense, especially in the playoffs.


Dirk did get screwed on that particular possession though.

[DarrinS]

Dirk is getting the fouled out of him......I can't even deny that.

The officiating in the NBA has become a joke, it has really turned me off over the last couple of years. Basketball used to be my favorite sport, that is no longer the case. There isn't another sport in this country that has officiating that's as inconsistent as the NBA.....it a joke.

You would've absolutely hated watching the Celtics-Lakers battles of the 80's. The NBA was VERY physical back in the day. That on Dirk would've been comletely ignored in that era. Those are little girl fouls.

[TJastal]

Just my opinion but it clearly looks like McDyess has his hands draped all over Nowitszki during that play there should have been a foul called, numerous fouls in fact.

Not only that but then at 6:35 in the 3rd quarter Dirk gets charged a foul on brushing away Dice's hands which are again all over him. Culprit here is Bob Delaney, who I noticed made piss-poor calls all game long against both teams.

Not that I'm complaining that much, Dice has paid a high price all year to get this kind of respect when it matters (and he's one of my favorite spurs) but you'd have to be a homer to try to argue those aren't fouls.

[Shank]

MORE MAV FANS FOUL CONSPIRACIES

lolk

Until my post, I'm the first Mavs fan in this thread.

[Cry Havoc]

That's the main reason I could see number 5 being argued. It certainly does seem that McDyess impedes the progress of Dirk there, and Dirk isn't in the paint/doesn't have his back to the basket.

Agreed. I thought yesterday's game was extremely tough to officiate. Both teams played too physically. If anything, there should have been more calls on both ends of the floor, but that's usually what happens when you get two closely matched teams in the playoffs, especially the WC, where it's typically more physical.

There was a lot of contact that -could- have been called on almost every play last night. The refs missed a lot, or neglected to call much of it -- but I thought they did an "OK" job considering how ramped up both teams were.

I thought the officiating might have slightly favored the Spurs, but nothing remotely out of the ordinary, and definitely not to conspiracy levels as the video is attempting to suggest.

I'd have to say the Mavs fans on this board have been pretty good sports about the game last night. There has been very little whining from them, and mostly they're blaming their own team. The only one who seems to be really upset about it is mogrovejo.

[LnGrrrR]

There was a lot of contact that -could- have been called on almost every play last night. The refs missed a lot, or neglected to call much of it -- but I thought they did an "OK" job considering how ramped up both teams were.

My feeling on things like this, if the refs are going to let BOTH teams play hard, then the team not playing hard needs to adjust.

This happens in football alot too, where the refs determine how much holding they'll allow. If one team starts holding a ton, and the refs aren't calling it, the other team should start doing it too. Now if the refs only call out ONE team... yeah, that's BS.

If the Spurs hand-check and get away with it, then Carlisle needs to tell his men to do the same until the refs start calling it.

[z0sa]

If the Spurs hand-check and get away with it, then Carlisle needs to tell his men to do the same until the refs start calling it.

RC doesn't seem to know much about truly effective adjustments. He goes off a gut feeling on most playcalls and even the rotation.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I could see the argument for #2 and #5, as it looks like Parker gets a lot of arm on that pass and McDyess hooks with his arm as he attempts to drive. Those are calls that I've seen whistled or over looked plenty of times in any playoff game.

In all honesty if Dirk was 6'5 he might have gotten any of those called for him. The ugly reality of the league is that there's a different set of rules for "big men" and for "perimeter players". Dirk plays more like a perimeter player some times but the contact that gets permitted on him is more consistent with him being a big man. It's the same reason Dwight Howard looks like he's going to piss his pants every time he gets into foul trouble. 7 footers get knocked around plenty, guards get the whistles.

[Cry Havoc]

My feeling on things like this, if the refs are going to let BOTH teams play hard, then the team not playing hard needs to adjust.

This happens in football alot too, where the refs determine how much holding they'll allow. If one team starts holding a ton, and the refs aren't calling it, the other team should start doing it too. Now if the refs only call out ONE team... yeah, that's BS.

If the Spurs hand-check and get away with it, then Carlisle needs to tell his men to do the same until the refs start calling it.

I dunno, I saw a lot of pretty heavy contact by the Mavs players last night, too. They played good defense for long stretches in the 1st, 2nd, and a short stint in the 4th quarter. Obviously the Spurs were more aggressive, but the Mavs allowed it by taking jumpshots all series instead of driving.

I mean, JJ Barea has been the guy who's got the most penetration in this series for Dallas. That says all you need to know about the mindset of Terry, Butler, Marion, etc. When the smallest guy on the floor is the ONLY player attacking for you, it's a miracle you manage to stay close in the game at any point.

[dickface]

Spur Fan creates thread asking for objective opinions

Spur Fan then gets butthurt when those objective opinions don't help their argument.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spur Fan creates thread asking for objective opinions

Spur Fan then gets butthurt when those objective opinions don't help their argument.

In my honest opinion I see only 1 or 2 fouls of the "5" counted.

Missed calls are missed on both sides throughout the course of the game.

I just thought it was ludicrous to make a video on the type of the 2 fouls that I counted.

At the end of the day Mavs were called for 22 fouls, Spurs 20.

Mavs have just been outplayed these 4 games.

It's clear by looking at the shooting percentages from every game this series, which Spurs have the upper hand. Meaning they are playing the better defense and just playing more efficiently overall on both sides of the floor. The only game Mavs were able to pull off was when they shot 20 more free throws.


Referees aren't the reason Mavs are down 3-1.

What part of that don't you understand?

[dbestpro]

Dirk is getting the fouled out of him......I can't even deny that.

The officiating in the NBA has become a joke, it has really turned me off over the last couple of years. Basketball used to be my favorite sport, that is no longer the case. There isn't another sport in this country that has officiating that's as inconsistent as the NBA.....it a joke.

What do you want, a foul called in every play? Because if we want to look at every detail then their is a foul on every play. The Rockets are one of the more aggresive teams, which I respect. The aggressive teams tend to get the calls. That is the unwritten rule. If you can't figure that out or you can't agree with it then we might as well put 10 guys 5 foot 5 who can shoot free throws on the court because that is all that is left.

The problem occurs when their is a huge free throw disparity for a home court team or a jump shooting team, then everything is thrown into question. The one thing I do agree is we need more continuity from ref to ref on how the game is called.

[Warlord23]

That's not a foul in the picture. Of course Dampier does it all the freaking time. You don't know the rules.

Thanks for confirming what I suspected. You're an idiot who's probably rehashing someone else's posts from another forum.

Dampier always initiates contact with Duncan using his hands. It doesn't matter whether the player is in the low post or above the long elbow. You quoted the rule yourself ... tell me where it distinguishes between low post and perimeter.

[Warlord23]

mogrovejo post #1:

b. Contact initiated by the defensive player guarding a player with the ball is not legal. This contact includes, but is not limited to, forearm, hands, or body check

mogrovejo post #2:

Spur fan think that Dampier defending Duncan posting up down low should be called the same way of Dice defending Dirk facing up above the long elbow. It's amazing.

You can't own yourself any better than that, folks.