NASA: Discovery of other intelligent life, "Only a matter of time."

[Cry Havoc]

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog...r-of-time.html

Time! In the search for life in the universe, time and the sheer scale of the cosmos are enemies of our all too brief human-life span. A few basic facts provide a startling and eye-opening perspective on both our mortality and the obstacles confronting our search for life beyond the Solar System.

A prime target for our early efforts to find a twin Earth is our nearest star system, Alpha Centauri, 4.4 million light years away, which means that light (or an extraterrestrial message) takes 4.4 years to reach us.

It’s been the destination of interstellar travelers in science fiction writing for so long now that one would almost be forgiven for thinking we’d already colonized it. But Alpha Centauri, the three-star system closest to our own Sun, is now the center of some very exciting science.

Javiera Guedes who headed up a NASA-funded project to analyze the possibility of detecting an Earthlike planet in orbit around Alpha Centauri B, has shown that terrestrial planets are likely to have formed around Alpha Centauri B, and that these planets should be orbiting in the “habitable zone.”

"It's so close to us, and the position of the other stars is such that it should be very possible to find a small planet," she explained. She also found that, based on astronomers' current understanding of how solar systems form, the existence of a planet the size of our own is very likely, and that there's also a chance that it would lie in the habitable zone.

Now, the planet-hunting team is using a telescope in Chile to keep an eye on the star for the next three years, in order to collect enough data to determine whether or not the next Earthlike planet lies next door.

"If they exist, we can observe them," said Guedes also showed that such planets would be observable if a telescope was dedicated to their search.

Guedes used a series of planet formation computer simulations to determine that terrestrial planets have probably formed around the star. The team ran repeated computer simulations which ran on a time frame of 200 million years each time. They varied the beginning conditions each time, and thus created a different result each time. However, each time a system of multiple planets evolved with at least one planet – approximately the size of Earth – forming. In many of these simulations, this planet was often found to be orbiting within the habitable zone of the star.

Its brightness and its position in the sky are both positive factors that make the Alpha Centauri search plausible; the latter giving the team a long period of observability each year from the Southern Hemisphere.

But the profound implication of the iron-clad law of astronomical time is that we see Alpha Centauri only as it was 4.4 years ago.In other words any message from inhabitants of Alpa Cenauri saying "Our planet is dying!" and our reply would consume a total of almost nine years.

The effect becomes even more starkly dramatic at greater distances. If we look at the awesome beauty of the Orion Nebula, we see it as the inhabitants of the Roman Empire saw it 1500 light years ago. A radio message we sent to a planet in the region would take some 3000 years for us to get their reply.

An even more extreme example would a message sent to us from the extreme outer edge of the Milky Way, which is 100,000 light years in diameter. Earth is located about 28,000 light years from the galactic center. A message reaching us now would have been sent 70,000 years ago.

To put astronomical time in an even more awesome perspective, scientists have located a giant 13-billion year old galaxy at the edge of the observable universe. The galaxy, which is 12.8 billion light-years from Earth, is as large as the Milky Way galaxy and harbors a supermassive black hole that contains at least a billion times as much matter as does our Sun. A message received from a planet that existed in this ancient would have to have been sent some eight billion years before the Earth was formed when the universe was only one-sixteenth of its present age. And, would that planet, indeed, that galaxy, still exist?

[phyzik]

People who believe that life doesnt exist outside of our own planet simply cant even begin to comprehend how immense our universe is. No one can fully comprehend how large it is.

It's like putting a monetary value on a number like 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000.00

We simply just cant comprehend it. It's just that huge.

I like to think its much like trying to look at every inch of terain on earth using a microscope at 1000x zoom and that may even not be enough to describe the sheer size of our universe.

Even with the smallest numbers in a mathematical equation, our universe is still bound to have SOME other, if not intelligent, life out there. It's literally mathematically impossible that we are the ONLY planet with at least some type of life.

For those religious folks with a narrow mind regarding their faith (note: not all religious folks, even the vatican acknowledges that their is most likely life out there), I pose this question: If we are the only life in the universe, why would God make the universe so large?

[Cry Havoc]

People who believe that life doesnt exist outside of our own planet simply cant even begin to comprehend how immense our universe is. No one can fully comprehend how large it is.

It's like putting a monetary value on a number like 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000.00

We simply just cant comprehend it. It's just that huge.

I like to think its much like trying to look at every inch of terain on earth using a microscope at 1000x zoom and that may even not be enough to describe the sheer size of our universe.

Even with the smallest mathematical equation, our universe is still bound to have SOME other, if not intelligent, life out there. It's literally mathematically impossible that we are the ONLY planet with at least some type of life.

Scientists estimate there are around 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the universe. It is quite an unfathomable number. Consider that counting at the rate of 1 num/sec, it takes 33 years to count to 1 billion. Now consider that it's possible there may be as many or more planets in the universe than stars, and you begin to get an idea of how many chances for life there is out there.

The BBC has quoted scientists that state there are 1,000 stars in the universe for every single grain of sand on Earth. That's pretty hard to wrap your mind around, but it's a decent starting point.

[Trainwreck2100]

then we have to factor in the odds it takes for life to come to be, for all we know that could be greater than the amount of planets in the universe. Think off all the correct turns life on this planet had to take to exist.

[z0sa]

I'm all for finding more life so we can truly measure the meaning of our existence.

[phyzik]

then we have to factor in the odds it takes for life to come to be, for all we know that could be greater than the amount of planets in the universe. Think off all the correct turns life on this planet had to take to exist.

True, we still have to factor in things like Solar flares, Stars colapsing, meteors, ect. But I was implying that those events are also in any supposed mathematical equation that may be used. again, the universe is THAT HUGE.

[Trainwreck2100]

I'm all for finding more life so we can truly measure the meaning of our existence.

that will be quite a feat considering we haven't even successfully measured the life on our own planet

[z0sa]

that will be quite a feat considering we haven't even successfully measured the life on our own planet

We haven't even discovered another habitable planet of any sort. The article is definitely counting chickens before they hatch, but the reality is, hospitable planets HAVE to be out there.

Right?

[phyzik]

Now, do I believe that we will ever find any other life in the universe? Thats a different question. I would love to see it in my lifetime, but its extremely doubtfull. Who knows, maybe the Technological Singularity will occur in my lifetime and could happen that makes space travel effortless.

[Trainwreck2100]

We haven't even discovered another habitable planet of any sort. The article is definitely counting chickens before they hatch, but the reality is, hospitable planets HAVE to be out there.

Right?

it doesnt have to be "hospitable" for life to exist, look at the fish that live at the bottom of the ocean, they evolved with the ability to live in less then hospitable conditions. If life does exist on another planet it will in no way resemble what we are.

[phyzik]

We haven't even discovered another habitable planet of any sort. The article is definitely counting chickens before they hatch, but the reality is, hospitable planets HAVE to be out there.

Right?

Not true, we just dont have the means of reaching another "pre-made" habitable planet that could sustain Human life. There are plenty of planets in the "hospitable" zone in respect to the distance from their central star that could likely support life.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...exoplanet.html

[z0sa]

Not true, we just dont have the means of reaching another "pre-made" habitable planet that could sustain Human life. There are plenty of planets in the "hospitable" zone in respect to the distance from their central star.

Being in the hospitable zone and actually being hospitable are two different things.

[sook]

People who believe that life doesnt exist outside of our own planet simply cant even begin to comprehend how immense our universe is. No one can fully comprehend how large it is.

It's like putting a monetary value on a number like 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000.00

We simply just cant comprehend it. It's just that huge.

I like to think its much like trying to look at every inch of terain on earth using a microscope at 1000x zoom and that may even not be enough to describe the sheer size of our universe.

Even with the smallest numbers in a mathematical equation, our universe is still bound to have SOME other, if not intelligent, life out there. It's literally mathematically impossible that we are the ONLY planet with at least some type of life.

For those religious folks with a narrow mind regarding their faith (note: not all religious folks, even the vatican acknowledges that their is most likely life out there), I pose this question: If we are the only life in the universe, why would God make the universe so large?

That doesn't do it justice. You wouldn't even be able to write all the zeros for the diameter of the universe, let alone AREA.

It is over 100 billion light years in diamater, the observable universe that is. And because of the fact it is expanding the actual size could be 10^23 times as large as the observable.

Any one that seriously believes there is no life is delusional. The mere fact that saying we are the ONLY life is saying that the probability of life is 1/infinite considering the vast sample size/

[phyzik]

Being in the hospitable zone and actually being hospitable are two different things.

True, but we are now just barely coming up with the technologies that are detecting planets in the sweet zone. Many have already been found. Weather they could harbor life as we know it is yet to be seen.

That totally debunks the opinion that they are not out there though.

[phyzik]

That doesn't do it justice. You wouldn't even be able to write all the zeros for the diameter of the universe, let alone AREA.

It is over 100 billion light years in diamater, the observable universe that is. And because of the fact it is expanding the actual size could be 10^23 times as large as the observable.

Any one that seriously believes there is no life is delusional. The mere fact that saying we are the ONLY life is saying that the probability of life is 1/infinite considering the vast sample size/

I agree, I was just trying to put it into a prespective (the sheer size of our universe) that people could somewhat begin understand what they are argueing when talking about it.

we dont even have a word that could even come close, in ANY language, that could discribe its size.

some people can barely even comprehend the distance from our planet to our own sun....

At our closest distance from the sun we are still something like 90 million miles away. thats just our OWN SUN!!!

[TDMVPDPOY]

so they are sayin inside blackholes there are more stars etc..i thought everything dies inside a blackhole....

[mouse]

This is great news! To think a whole new civilization not contaminated by Darwin!

I can't wait until they find out how many on this planet think they evolved from a fish!

Good thing I have many screen captures of me saying differently as they may want to talk to someone who is part of "Intelligent" life form.

What would be even funnier is to watch all the Atheist backpedal as many go edit their dumb ass ape to man postings when we get a visit from this new planet and they bring proof of a designer.

Just think of the possibilities as many Darwin worshipers start to their boxers when this new planet still has a few dinosaurs running around.

What would be so cool if they have a dinosaur that died 8 thousand years ago and our scientist do a carbon test and it shows 25 million years ago.

To think this planet may be so far advanced that the average 16 year old knows carbon dating is like having an 8 track player, so out dated and obsolete.

And to find out none of them have Cancer since they use no chemicals in the food and air. they don't use atomic bombs, they don't pollute their waters.


And what would be even better if they have a testing devise that can tell if explosives were used to bring down WTC7 building.

the possibilities are endless......................................

[phyzik]

Driving at 60Mph non-stop it would take around 176 years to reach our sun.

[phyzik]

It was only a matter of time until Mouse tried to turn this into another debate. He just cant ingore a thread that might threaten his beliefs in any way.

Mouse, post something new about religion, I can tell you I wont even give it a second look. why are you so threatened by something thats supposedly bunk according to your ideas?

If you dont like them, ignore them and we wont attack your fragile beliefs. Its that simple. It's like your looking for a fight.... Or your precieving these posts as an attack on your beliefs when all it really is, is just an interesting news article that we can discuss.

The only thing that was posted about religion in this thread was to pose a question... not to incite anger, but to help people question the fate of the universe. You go on believing what you will. It's clear I, or anyone else, are not going to change your mind.

Do us all a favor and avoid these threads from now on. It's not an "attack" on your faith. If you feel it is, take your religious beliefs to heart and.... Turn the other cheek.

[mouse]

It was only a matter of time until Mouse tried to turn this into another debate.

Don't flatter yourself Mr. FTP man. I responded to a topic, it takes at least two people to have a debate, who am i debating with again?

He just cant ingore a thread that might threaten his beliefs in any way.

Are you saying only certain posters can reply to certain topics? I would like to know if the rules around here have changed.

Mouse, post something new about religion, I can tell you I wont even give it a second look

Who is talking about religion? are you drunk again?

why are you so threatened by something thats supposedly bunk according to your ideas?

If you read my post again and maybe this time turn down the Lynyrd Skynyrd free bird I hear playing in the background of your single wide trailer you may be able to notice I am all for this discovery!

Go ahead re-read I will wait for you...

If you dont like them, ignore them and we wont attack your fragile beliefs.

There you go with me not liking something, where did i post I don't like this topic? Why must I ignore anything that is a childish act.

Its that simple. It's like your looking for a fight.... Or your precieving these posts as an attack on your beliefs when all it really is, is just an interesting news article that we can discuss.

Ok now your starting to get on my nerves. You want to meet in the alley after school? Are you one of those rednecks that gets drunk then fights with anyone in the room and then spends the next day apologizing?

The only thing that was posted about religion in this thread was to pose a question... not to incite anger, but to help people question the fate of the universe.

You lost me I didn't read any religious posts yet I just saw the topic and posted a reply showing my support.

You go on believing what you will.

Are you sure? I have your permission? Thank you I have been waiting to get the ok from someone here for many years, finally freedom to post what I believe!.......this is so cool, I won't let you down phyzik,......I promise!

It's clear I, or anyone else, is not going to change your mind.

Is that what the club is for to brain wash others? Am I like rosemary in the movie rosemary's baby? Am I not wanting to drink the blood of the new born child? Will i not be invited to the next ST gtg if i don't join the free masons?

No wonder Kori stop inviting me I am a stubborn fool that won't conform to the ways of phyzik. Oh mighty phyzik I praise you! I shall sacrifice my first born to you almighty phyzik! I want to be part of your cult. please supper size my grape kool-aid in fact make it a route 44!

Do us all a favor and avoid these threads from now on

Wow that is so SpursReport of you. maybe you want to ban me? Your actually telling someone in America on a public forum to avoid certain topics?

Not even Slomo is that much of a and he's 1/4 Russian.

Can I at least read the topics? Please don't shut me out I promise to behave! Give me another chance don't do this to me! Help me Kori don't let the phyzik God make the rules. oh wait your the new Moderator...my bad.

Ok I will avoid this topic. Since I value your friendship, and who knows i may get to use that FTP server after all!

It's not an "attack" on your faith. If you feel it is.... Turn the other cheek.

How about if I just spread my cheeks for you?

[sabar]

It was only a matter of time until Mouse tried to turn this into another debate. He just cant ingore a thread that might threaten his beliefs in any way.

Mouse, post something new about religion, I can tell you I wont even give it a second look. why are you so threatened by something thats supposedly bunk according to your ideas?

If you dont like them, ignore them and we wont attack your fragile beliefs. Its that simple. It's like your looking for a fight.... Or your precieving these posts as an attack on your beliefs when all it really is, is just an interesting news article that we can discuss.

The only thing that was posted about religion in this thread was to pose a question... not to incite anger, but to help people question the fate of the universe. You go on believing what you will. It's clear I, or anyone else, are not going to change your mind.

Do us all a favor and avoid these threads from now on. It's not an "attack" on your faith. If you feel it is, take your religious beliefs to heart and.... Turn the other cheek.

It takes two people for a debate to exist and now Mouse shall be relentless in replying.

This is great news! To think a whole new civilization not contaminated by Darwin!

I can't wait until they find out how many on this planet think they evolved from a fish!

Good thing I have many screen captures of me saying differently as they may want to talk to someone who is part of "Intelligent" life form.

What would be even funnier is to watch all the Atheist backpedal as many go edit their dumb ass ape to man postings when we get a visit from this new planet and they bring proof of a designer.

Just think of the possibilities as many Darwin worshipers start to their boxers when this new planet still has a few dinosaurs running around.

What would be so cool if they have a dinosaur that died 8 thousand years ago and our scientist do a carbon test and it shows 25 million years ago.

To think this planet may be so far advanced that the average 16 year old knows carbon dating is like having an 8 track player, so out dated and obsolete.

And to find out none of them have Cancer since they use no chemicals in the food and air. they don't use atomic bombs, they don't pollute their waters.


And what would be even better if they have a testing devise that can tell if explosives were used to bring down WTC7 building.

the possibilities are endless......................................

I'm going to guess that intelligent life will treat us like we treat ant hills. They won't care what we think or believe.

The chances of finding life that wants to communicate with us is miniscule. All of these must hold true:

1. Both civilizations must exist during the time period where their communications will travel between then
2. Both civilizations must exist during a technological time period where they both think that the form of communication that they are using is the correct one
3. Both civilizations must send their communication in the correct direction and detect the other's communication among the background noise
4. Both planets must support spontaneous generation of some self-replicating molecule
5. Both planets must remain habitable for life to evolve to intelligence
6. Both intelligence must not destroy themselves
7. Both intelligences must be peaceful

I think the chances of finding life are literally astronomical. Even if 1 in 100 stars had intelligent life on their worlds, you are looking at none of the closest 50 stars containing life. Thats at least a 32-year time period for a round-trip message. Lower the odds to more realistic levels and you begin to run into the problem that life may exist, but they are just too far. We've been broadcasting television for 50-70 years now, which means all stars within 70ish light years should of gotten our signals. How useful is a return message 70 years down the road? Will we even use television or radio then?

This means that the only meaningful communication will be from contacting an alien spaceship, but I feel that civilizations on that level of technology will probably be mining entire planets for their resources instead of going on cosmic voyages to find people. It'd be like stepping on an ant hill to them.

Intelligent life should be very common thanks to statistics and the sheer scales of the universe. The premise of the thread le though that discovery is a matter of time, is false. It is very well possible that intelligent life is either too far away, not using radio, self-destroyed before contact, or not listening on purpose. The window of time for two civs to talk is tiny on the grand scheme of things.

[DarkReign]

A prime target for our early efforts to find a twin Earth is our nearest star system, Alpha Centauri, 4.4 million light years away, which means that light (or an extraterrestrial message) takes 4.4 years to reach us.

Uhhh, I think they mean AC is 4.4 light years away, not million light years away.

[DarkReign]

I think the chances of finding life are literally astronomical. Even if 1 in 100 stars had intelligent life on their worlds, you are looking at none of the closest 50 stars containing life.

I am no better than the faith based religions on this, but it is my belief that life, in time, will not be seen as unique or "one in a million" as we do now.

I think life will be seen as one of the constant forces, in time, up there with gravity, electro-magnetic, thermal and the strong and weak nuclear energies.

That ultimately the forumla will go something like...

If the planet/satellite has:

a. Gravity
b. Atmosphere
c. Is at least X number of years old
d. Has enough light from central system star

..then life exists almost universally. That isnt to say its intelligent life, but bacterial and extremophiles will be there, period.

I think this will more than likely be proven in our lifetimes with the deep resevoirs of water on Mars, that if we somehow dug deep into the planet, we will find life in the harsh environments of the planets molten layer beneath the surface.

That Europa will bear the fruit of life in the extreme cold of its surface ice, to the microbial life that swims in the depths of its heated core.

This is only what I believe, or should I say, predict.

[DarkReign]

The window of time for two civs to talk is tiny on the grand scheme of things.

Not if life is as prevelant as some might believe. Again, if (big "if") life is a constant, then the chances of two (or more) civilizations being at the same rate of "climb" is pretty damn good, indeed. Because the abundancy of universal life would give nearly the same ratio of "planets to life" as "planets to stars" used earlier in this thread.

Now, if life is as scarce and barren as it is made out to be...then yes, unless a civilization is the advanced alien version of the UN on a species finding mission from God, our chances of ever communicating with an another sentient species is almost null (that is, unless we advance far enough to become the Universe trotting race in question here).

[TDMVPDPOY]

since the hubble will be out of commission soon when the new telescope goes up...how about sending the hubble inside a blackhole.....