Here ya go:
The e-mails accidentally released by the Justice Department...notice the dates
http://cnsnews.com/sites/default/fil...%20Furious.pdf
I asked you where you got the info that "all weapons were untracked". I can't find any such claims, even from the hearings/emails, as far as I was able to find.
Let me repeat: I'm not defending Holder, I do think the guy lies just like any other politician from any team (and that includes Barry, obviously), and I think it's reprehensible no matter who does it.
so you have no evidence that all weapons were untracked
It's all public knowledge as per justice department (still incomplete) answers to subpoenas to the US Congress. Please try to keep up.so you have no evidence that all weapons were untracked
You haven't looked very hard. I'm about to leave and go home but if you even try a LITTLE you should find the ATF report on exactly how many walked and how many were discovered at crime scenes on both sides of the border.
Let me repeat: I'm not defending Holder, I do think the guy lies just like any other politician from any team (and that includes Barry, obviously), and I think it's reprehensible no matter who does it.
Really. Google is your friend if you are REALLY interested.
What a short memory you have. I thought my memory was bad. Don't ask me for the link(s) either. It was out there so long back.
Google came up with nothing:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=fast+and+furiou...guns+untracked
What was out there?
Did you review all 27,000+ returns?
That's the problem with Google. You cannot select date ranges It's a search engine that gives too much information. Until Yahoo bought out Alta Vista, their advanced search was awesome.
Allegedly, this is big news. I can find dozens of articles on untracked guns in Iraq...
I'm not saying it's not true, I simply haven't found any information pointing to that...
They lost track of the guns. That's what happened.
I was wrong however about date ranges. Google now does have a date range feature. Try narrowing your searched to several past months back, maybe dates before May. I forget how old the good news is, February comes to mind.
That's exactly what I said. CC said all guns were "walked" untracked. Thank you for confirming what I read.
Maybe CC has new information...
I will try to type slowly.
A T F by their own admission never TRIED to track the guns.
Their plan by their own admission was to link the guns to cartel crime scenes.
What part of that don't you understand?
I'm asking you where you got that from, because that's not what I read, it's not on the emails you linked, and apparently it isn't what Wild Cobra read either. A Google search doesn't bring that up either.
BTW, what I also read is that this operation wasn't just on ATF, but it was a multi-agency operation, that included, among other agencies, the DEA.
If you can't find it, it's ok. Just let me know.
What's the "easy" google search term I can find this under?
This is a decent basic overview written before the latest revelations that top justice officials were in on it. It uses direct quotes and names names. I'm just not sure what you are trying to defend here unless you are just shamelessly parroting blue team talking points right to the bitter end despite the clear facts of the case.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/invest...I_story_4.html
As for the specific numbers your apparently deficient google skills couldn't find:
Altogether, the straw purchasers bought 2,020 firearms during Fast and Furious, according to law enforcement officials. Of those guns, 227 were recovered in Mexico; 363 have been recovered in the United States.
An additional 1,430 remain on the streets.
That part I missed. That is even more irresponsible that I thought. This is absolutely criminal.
Which doesn't say all the guns were untracked... at all.
I think the entire operation is a terrible idea. But the distinction as to whether the guns were tracked and then some lost (what everyone has apparently known until now) vs not tracked at all (your contention) is pretty significant. It changes the case between negligence to willful infringement, which is not a minor difference.
But that doesn't say they're not tracked... How many of those left are tracked vs untracked? You said the there's an ATF report saying they never intended to track them. If you can find it, post it.
If true, I agree. I just can't find anything that says they all were.
How do you think this whole thing came to light? Agent Dodson and the other agents in Phoenix being ordered NOT to track the guns finally went directly to Congress when their superiors kept blowing their concerns off.
In the end THEY were the only ones that got fired, and the guys that put the whole thing together and tried to cover it up got transferred to better jobs in Washington.
Dodson's testimony to congress:
http://www.whatthefolly.com/2011/06/...-fast-furious/
Testimony of Agent Peter Forcelli to congress:
http://www.whatthefolly.com/2011/06/...-fast-furious/
Stop beating around the bush, and just point me to where you got the info that all these guns were untracked.
Heck, even Dodson in the testimony you just linked says they were ordered to "watch, track and note". Just not act. Apparently, the ATF was indeed tracking. So much for an admission.
I'll tell you this much: If they were indeed all untracked, it's definitely criminal. If they were tracked and some got lost, then it's still negligent, and somebody should pay, although it's somewhat understandable that these things happens in operations of this scope. Which is why, personally, I think operations like this just shouldn't be on the table to begin with, because the risk is indeed a Border Patrol agent dead using American guns.
I'll be the last to defend Holder. He's a politician, and much like all of them, he will lie. That said, there's no color here. If the narrative is "Holder lied, people died", to exploit on a political basis, much like Issa has done, we can apply that to a lot of red team members as well.
Lastly, and I say this sadly, I personally don't think this has the political weight you assign to it, at all. November will be very likely decided by the state of the economy. Jobs, etc. As it normally is.
Testimony of ATF agent Olindo james Casa to congress:
http://www.whatthefolly.com/2011/06/...-fast-furious/
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