Everytime i read one of your posts, i swipe my computer screen thinking there is a ing bug on there
Doesn't refute anything I've posted for a second time. Sorry.
they'll be wrong? OMG! They're never wrong!If Spurs have a plan to attain a viable option at SF that's better than the LLE (which is more than likely unrealistic) then yeah they will be right letting him go. If they let him go, without a plan of action to fill this vital need then they will be wrong by letting him go for a player for the LLE.
I think so.
I really hope the Spurs end up with Stephen Graham as the starting small forward. We would really have a great shot at beating the Lakers then.
If the more talented options of Wright, Jones, and Butler are gone, another option might be to simply go for defensive length-- two unconventional guys I could see playing 10 mpg at SF might be Jonathan Bender and Pecherov. They'd be killed by quickness, but with Splitter and Duncan + a 7' wingspan at SF, the extreme defensive length might work for brief stints. Not the best solution... but it might be the only thing left.
I wouldn't completely discount McGuire based on his offensive shortcomings either. Forget about shooting from the 3 spot when he's in and make him an offensive rebounder. Again, not a perfect solution, but it beats having Bogans or Hairston in there.
Maybe we can dig to the bottom of the barrel even more and maybe get the corpse of Manute Bol to start at small forward for us. Now we are talking about some length.
Too soon?
Delirious maybe.
With all due respect to the late Manute Bol, the guy was a legend in many ways much like our very own David Robinson. By no means did I mean to disrespect the humanitarian he was. He certainly is missed and I by no means meant to disrespect him. If you got that from my post, it wasn't intended by any means.
Only if Graham could fail at the 10 shortcomings of RJ that remain unchallenged by anyone on this board except for deflecting comments about how Pop and RC are flawless.
Except he'd fail at 10-20% of the price! Genious!
I agree at this point that Jefferson is clearly the best option, but that depends entirely on him and I have no idea what he's thinking. But seeing the way he usually reacted to Pop screaming at him all year, I wouldn't be shocked to see him go elsewhere for less money.
Okay "genious" we can agree to disagree. I bow down to your expertise.
You haven't convinced me with your rinse and repeat viewpoints.
Have funon the thought of Stephen Graham starting for the Spurs, when Spurs can have Jefferson instead for half of his previous salary.
I always agree to disagree.Okay "genious" we can agree to disagree. I bow down to your expertise.
You haven't convinced me with your rinse and repeat viewpoints.
Have funI don't usually stoop to levels of attacking people with insinuations of jacking it and assertions that those people think they're better than Pop and RC. At least not specifically, I tend to address entire swaths of people in that way. Like Bonner-fans.
I don't want anyone bowing to my expertise, I welcome the debate.
And my viewpoints presented to you have been anything but 'rinse and repeat'. Time and again I've brought a new angle to the debate. His shooting. His defense. His place as a scoring option both now and in the future with Splitter. How the role of a 4th scorer was usurped by Hill. Then on different threads new things keep popping up that I bring in with research, like his career postseason 3 pt % by year, or his playing time in the 4th quarters of playoff games.
I'm on these threads looking for well-reasoned responses to those concerns, or at least other issues that even the playing field. But most of what I'm finding is "LOL @ Hairston and LLE!" and "RJ shot 3s pretty good for a garbage Milwaukee team!" and "If Pop and RC think he's worth it, then he's worth it".
I would close by saying that whether the Spurs win the le in 2011 will mostly depend on their 3 best players performing well plus the next tier of the next 2 best players, a big 5 that will be TD, Manu, Parker, Splitter and Hill. Plus they'll need spot good performances from their role players stepping up, like Blair, McDyess, Anderson, and the Small Forward (RJ or whomever).
That's what RJ is now. A role player. No need to overpay for a role player.
The problem with Jefferson is his contract. Even at 6-8million for 3-4 years is not worthwhile, given his production.
I was also disgusted that he opted out, hence killing that 15 million expiring contract. Not too thrilled to hear of the possibility of 3/24 contract for RJ either. However, I think there is a silver lining to this
Since RJ has opted out and we hold his Bird's rights, that is to say we have the bargaining power when it comes to S&T with teams who want him but does not have cap space. As such, we will be able to get something out of him.
For teams who have cap space, they are probably interested in the big names first, rather than RJ. Hence, it is not likely that they will make any offer to him til the big names are signed up. I think this will allow Spurs to low-ball him to a smaller contract. We are blinded by the concept that he has given up 15 million so he would not ask for anything less. However, he has already opted out and hopefully with no teams interested in him (initially), we will be able to lowball him to a much managable contract. I think people who think he should stay due to inferior SF market will be happy with this.
However, if some team is stupid enough to offer him a big and long contract and do not want a S&T, I think the management will be more than happy to save the money. It may open up chances for Hairston/Gee/LLE FA to shine.
One way or another, we are not gonna be a favourite for the championship anyway but its about making the best outta the situation
Rappin' Pop commenting on RJ decision, rap style.
Some of you hoes really need a damn life.
Posting on Spurstalk about this, never had sex with your poor wife.
Seriously, Stephen Graham for the starting job?
Man, you must never had experienced a $250 handjob.
We are re-signing this , no way anyone is gonna convince me.
Malik Hairston can only take Peja Stojakovic's spot on the New Orleans Bees.
Who the are you fools to tell us how to handle our cash?
You got no life, you never had experienced a birthday bash.
Without Jefferson, we will never get over the championship hump.
I swear my real username does not go by the name of BUMP.
You guys are cross-eyed, thinking about Dorell Wright.
Me sittng here drinking my wine, watching the buttholes get tight.
At least we didn't have Eddy "Fatass" Curry being a bum.
In several years, I am guessing objective will still never .
So, objective, tell me how does my ass taste?
Post #41:
Both of those points were small, yet important reasons why Spurs would consider resigning Jefferson, a big part of it is the scenario that is playing out.
NJ is reportedly not interested in RJ. That takes away from a sign and trade situation.
NY doesn't make any sense either; which takes another possible sign and trade situation which was elaborated here:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres View Post
I don't understand why the Knicks would want Jefferson.
They have two intriguing prospects at small forward in Gallinari and Chandler.
Jefferson is not good enough to spend 8-9 million a year, when they have Gallinari and Chandler there for a fraction of the price. That is bad basketball economics to add significant salary to an already set position.
Only way they'd sign a small forward is if it was LeBron. IMO
I'm willing to bet Jefferson sticks with SA.
Which leaves this left for R.J or any potential sign and trade situations:
Originally Posted by Mel_13 View Post
Teams that still have enough cap space to offer RJ a contract larger than the MLE (assuming all reported trades and signings go through):
Miami
Chicago
Washington
Clippers
Sacramento
I don't see a match. While crazy money is flowing all over the NBA, RJ and his agent may have badly misjudged the market for his services.
Spurs should be patient, keep a reasonable short-term deal on the table (3/24) and see if a market develops for RJ.
Given this scenario that is transpiring, Jefferson finding a home outside of San Antonio is less likely unless it's for the MLE, which would kill just about all sign and trade scenarios. ( Which would leave the Spurs with the LLE to fill the huge gap at SF).
But lets just say NJ and NY all wanted him and gave the Spurs a trade exception for your sake(or agreed to a sign and trade). If that scenario were to play out, the Spurs still wouldn't be getting anything guaranteed in return via trade exception:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres View Post
For your dream scenario to play out:
You have to go through each of these steps to logically think about this scenario.
1) You got to find a team willing to sign Jefferson. Meaning they have to have a hole to fill at the SF position and have the cap space to sign him. Or they must have a player of less ability that they are willing to part with in a sign and trade ( meaning Spurs aren't the real winners in a player for player sign and trade swap).
2)This team must have a player that they are willing to part with, and that fits the Spurs better than R.J. and that would be more productive being the 4th option.
3) If there is a trade exception being sent to the Spurs ( instead of a player), what are realistic possibilities for such a move on both sides? * In case you didn't know- there's only a handful of scenarios that actually make some sense on both sides*
You have to go through all these three steps and find matches in every aspect. That my friend is a long-shot and that is why the Spurs are interested in resigning Jefferson because he is the best-most realistic option.
Spurs would be fools to let Jefferson walk, in hopes of finding such a dream scenario where the Spurs net a better piece.
The reality is Spurs are better off with Jefferson instead of having to live with a player for the LLE and 7-9 million per year for him isn't bad value. Especially considering what players are getting paid right now (Spurs also just paid Mason/Finley and Bogans 9 million total) and especially considering he's proven to be a reliable three point shooter for more than half of his career. Rumors are Pop is working with him; he must obviously think RJ has the potential to regain his footing in this aspect; which makes me even more optimistic about resigning him. All of these factors, factor into my reasons why I believe Jefferson should be in the Spurs best interest. It's a better option than James Jones at the LLE. ( Worse case scenario; If things don't pan out in 2 years after Duncan retires; his salary and contract will be respectable enough to move more easily than it was before.
Post #48
So now we are comparing Mason, Bogans and Bonner to Jefferson?
That makes no sense whatsoever.
Mason, Bogans and Bonner have proved to be one dimensional players at best and all have a relative low ceiling.
Jefferson on the other hand is the polar opposite, in which he has proven to be a mult-dimensional player that has a high ceiling. Unfortunately, Jefferson had a bad year compared to his previous years where he was one of the best small forwards in the league. Same can't be said for your wishful analogy. Which is why Spurs probably believe that talented arsenal of Jefferson's is worth another look, compared to the inferior alternative. Especially after an off-season under the tutelage of one of the best coaches the game has ever had.
This is just another reason why the Spurs obviously think 7-9 million a year is worth the gamble, given his track record.
All of these reasons in the past 2 pages are why Jefferson is the best option for the Spurs. Rather than passing on Jefferson and acquiring a has-been piece for the LLE with a very low ceiling.
Spurs are trying to win a championship, and the higher the ceiling the better the chances are for the Spurs.
And it seems like Pop and R.C are thinking that way as well.
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 07-02-2010 at 06:52 AM.
rhyming job with job?
You couldn't even work in something about an alley-oop to RJ with the lob?
[QUOTE=MaNu4Tres;4466542]Post #41:
none of this addresses anything I've put forward. I've posted nothing about banking on a trade. It would be nice. But unlikely, and un-related to how Jefferson performed in 09-10. How does any of the trade talk business relate to the points I made in post 29 of this thread? It doesn't.
"RJ shot 3s pretty good for a garbage Milwaukee team!"especially considering he's proven to be a reliable three point shooter for more than half of his career.
"If Pop and RC think he's worth it, then he's worth it".Rumors are Pop is working with him; he must obviously think RJ has the potential to regain his footing in this aspect; which makes me even more optimistic about resigning him.
"LOL @ Hairston and LLE!"It's a better option than James Jones at the LLE.
"If Pop and RC think he's worth it, then he's worth it".This is just another reason why the Spurs obviously think 7-9 million a year is worth the gamble, given his track record.
"LOL @ Hairston and LLE!"All of these reasons in the past 2 pages are why Jefferson is the best option for the Spurs. Rather than passing on Jefferson and acquiring a has-been piece for the LLE with a very low ceiling.
"If Pop and RC think he's worth it, then he's worth it".And it seems like Pop and R.C are thinking that way as well.
------------------
Isn't there anything else? Like maybe RJ did a really good job defending ________ and wasn't recognized enough for it. Defending ________ is key to beating _______ in the playoffs. Or maybe RJ's FTA were _______ in x-quarters and were an unseen gem in the flow of game during the x-quarter.
Or that RJ is working to lose weight, or gain muscle, or secretly had plantar fasciitis, or something?
In Bold
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 07-02-2010 at 07:22 AM.
Not that I think even Golden State is stupid enough to allow him to leave....this is by far the best SF option out there. Like it or not we're rebuilding, so it makes a ton of sense to grab young guys like Morrow to lead the way for a good nucleus for the future. Imagine Hill, Blair, Splitter, Morrow on the team with Parker, Manu and Duncan's contracts coming off the books....that would be a bright future..
.
.
5. Anthony Morrow
While Miller and Korver are outstanding shooters, Anthony Morrow might be the best shooter in the entire NBA. In his rookie season, Morrow knocked down 46.7% of his three-pointers. Last year, he proved it wasn't beginner's luck by shooting 45.6% on his long distance looks. The 24-year-old was undrafted out of Georgia Tech but he has consistently produced in both of his seasons, which makes him a reasonably safe target. That said, having played in Golden State, Morrow's defense is a question mark. There's also not much info regarding how he performs under pressure or how he meshes in a winning atmosphere. But then again, with the way he shoots, signing Morrow could very well be worth any perceived risks.
Morrow broke the summer league record with 47 points(not that it means a whole lot), scored 37 points in his first start, scored 33 on the Mavs, the guy is a PURE shooter, like Ray Allen, Steve Kerr type of pure shooter.
But like I said.... it would take the likes of the TWolves, Knicks or Clippers to give that away; Golden State wouldn't be so stupid or go so cheaply.
Btw if he replaced RJ.... are we really going to question the man's defense, it's not like we are losing anything in that aspect.
Bad defence, no other ability besides shooting. May become the next Mason in Spurs
Not that I think even Golden State is stupid enough to allow him to leave....this is by far the best SF option out there. Like it or not we're rebuilding, so it makes a ton of sense to grab young guys like Morrow to lead the way for a good nucleus for the future. Imagine Hill, Blair, Splitter, Morrow on the team with Parker, Manu and Duncan's contracts coming off the books....that would be a bright future.
Morrow broke the summer league record with 47 points(not that it means a whole lot), scored 37 points in his first start, scored 33 on the Mavs, the guy is a PURE shooter, like Ray Allen, Steve Kerr type of pure shooter.
But like I said.... it would take the likes of the TWolves, Knicks or Clippers to give that away; Golden State wouldn't be so stupid or go so cheaply.
Btw if he replaced RJ.... are we really going to question the man's defense, it's not like we are losing anything in that aspect.
well, thanks for addressing them instead of bashing about with regards to the FO being perfect.
How many postseasons in his career was a reliable 3-point threat?In the last 3 months of last year. Yes. Fact : He's proven to be a reliable threat in previous seasons( Not just the one in Milwaukee).
We disagree tremendously. I'd count on Manu, Hill, and Bogans to defend someone before RJ, and I don't even like Bogans. And Hairston wouldn't be far behind.(Compared to Bruce? Of course; compared to any one else outside of Manu on team on the wing last year? I disagree)
Check the playoff play-by-plays. Playoffs are what matter. There, he was only in the crunch about 50% of the time unless I totally misread the pages at nba.com, in which case I need to be corrected.(False; he was a crunch time player in more games than not by a wide wide margin)
they got better but not enough to scream that he must be kept. Only my opinion of course. But I'll take a limited player who hustles his ass off and plays with passion over an underachiever. Those characterizations could be wrong, but it is what it is. And I think the majority of informed Spurs fans would agree that so far as a Spur, RJ has underachieved.(Total Opinion; not a fact); these aspects progressed in a positive way after the All-Star Break)
There is zero doubt in my mind that RJ is not the same athletically as he was earlier in his career, and more broadly it's common if not expected for players to decline after so many years. Ginobili also. Ginobili's game isn't as wrapped up in his athleticism as RJ's though. We'll disagree.(Opinion; nothing about his game proved this to be true.) Ginobili is still just as athletic at 33 (soon to be) as he was at 30. IMO
if the SF like Jefferson is kept to an irrelevant # of shots, then how is that a mark against an LLE scrub? If Jefferson's offensive opportunities in the offense result in irrelevant points, that seems like it wouldn't be too hard to replace imo.( Irrelevant with the amount shots available for him and he still was instrumental in the Game 2,4 victories against Dallas and played really well in games 2 and 4 against Phx) )
You tout his performances in 4 of 10 playoff games. The one game that really stands out is the 2nd against Dallas, where he had a great first half if I remember right and was something unlikely to be replicated by an LLE scrub. The last of those instrumental games he was benched in the last 3:30 of a winnable game. If he didn't have 'instrumental' performances in 6 of 10 games then how valuable can he be? Even throwing out the Dallas game that Pop quickly tanked, more than half the time he wasn't a big factor in the Spurs advantage. And Parker and Hill were still recovering from their injuries, if they are healthy in the next playoffs maybe there will be less need for RJ's occasional outbursts.
You don't think he was demoted to the bench because of poor play? We'll disagree.( He still averaged the same amount of minutes, he was demoted to the bench to level out the bench and to play with Manu.)
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure he and/or his agent spoke publicly about the possibiltiy of opting out before the playoffs, if not well before. That would mean he certainly knew that would make it a contract year.( It wasn't his contract year essentially, this next year was going to be his contract year.) Job security was never a problem when he received his first big contract from New Jersey; no reason to think it will be a problem now).
Those weren't my expectations, and he wasn't supposed to be as good as Bowen. But they were Pop's and the Spurs expectations. The quotes from Pop and co. from the summer-pre-season are out there.( He was never a premiere Bowen-clone to begin with; therefore your obvious expectations were very far off.)
But if he's not needed for his scoring (not proven as good in the system as Hill, possibly behind Splitter), and he's not playing for his defense (you at least concede that he's behind Manu for wings), then what is he needed for? He can't even be counted on to be the clutch designated free-throw shooter to lock games up. He had a couple of postseasons where he was really good and one of those was remarkable but not recently.(Doesn't mean he isn't the best option available at the SF position.)
anyways, good discussion
I think we're ed if RJ doesn't come back. With a year under his belt in the Spurs' system, and a more realistic contract, maybe they can make it work. Going out and filling a starting position with the LLE, or plugging it with a D-League project is not a recipe for contention. RJ was a huge disappointment, yes. But there were far greater problems last season than him.
lets get rid of jefferson, no balls mason and whoever the (not named, manu, tim or parker) we have to get ACTION JACKSON back!
What do you suggest we trade for him with?
Devin Brown got fat.
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