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Sheed has that anger management problem
LMA
Sheed
I read somewhere years ago where it was mentioned that he had more talent that almost any PF in NBA history (including TD), but he never realized all his potential. I don't necessarily 100% agree with that. I think he could have been better than KG and Dirk (like you mentioned), but I'm not sure he would have been better than TD. Either way, I liked they guy and also believe he really did have the talent to be one of the greatest PFs of all time, but unfortunately he didn't apply himself 100% and put in his all to realize that potential.
Sheed has that anger management problem
Ball don’t lie!
Growing up in NC I watched Sheed when he was in college at UNC. One thing that I still remember back then as a kid was despite all the talent he would always defer to Jerry Stackshouse being the number 1 option at UNC when he clearly had more talent than Jerry. Whereas Tim once he became the man a Wake Forest he didn't defer to anybody . As they say Duncan wanted all the smoke in college. Tim had some heart breaking losses at Wake Forest that really ate at him but he wanted to be great and didn't shy away from being the go to guy. I saw that in a game where played against Big Country Reeves who was like 290-300 pounds who physically pounded Tim in the NCAA tournament and was the reason why Tim decided not to go to the NBA early. Sheed on the other hand always looked for somebody to carry him even though he had the talent to carry the team. I believe it's really mentality that separated Sheed from being on Tim's level.
We ain't ever gonna get another Sheed at this point, LMA will come around again
LaMarcus easily and it ain't even close
Pretty interesting to hear that. I think he could have still been better than KG and Dirk, but the reason I didn't think he could go past Tim is his mentality with the game on the line. Sheed unravelled too many times and let his emotions get the best of him when he had to be cool and calm.
Tim was always tough/great in clutch situations. Doesn't matter if it was scoring a bucket, making a defensive stop, hitting free throws, making a pass to a shooter, I don't remember many times where Tim faltered in those situations. A lot of our (the Spurs) toughest losses when the game was on the line, I don't recall/believe were much of Tim's fault (a small percentage, maybe). It was usually someone else messing up.
I also think TD is one of the greatest big men ever when it came to crunch time play. Karl Malone sucked and usually choked when the game was on the line, Shaq wasn't great (his free throws were a big weakness and he wasn't always locked in on defense), KG always needed someone to carry him or take over when the game was on the line. Dirk was pretty good offensively, but pretty poor on defense. Not sure how guys like Kareem were in crunch time, but yeah, out of all the big men I've seen, TD was IMO the strongest mentally with the game on the line and usually came up big.
Tim had a horrible game5, missed the game-winning put back at end of regulation buzzer. Horry bailed Tim out.
A little surprised at the majority of the responses. I figured Spurs fan would understand Sheed better. This is like comparing Manu Ginobili with Mitch Richmond. I’m curious how many people who took LMA over Sheed because of individual career stats and accomplishments would do the same with Richmond over Manu.
Sheed never cared about individual statistics. It started before the Pistons, before the NBA, before “deferring” to Stackhouse at UNC (back to that shortly). In high school, Sheed averaged 19 minutes a game because he sat most of the second halves of games when they were blowout wins. He didn’t give a about padding his individual stats in a 30+ point win. He cared more about his teammates who didn’t get to play a lot getting an opportunity for more minutes. It was his approach to the game throughout his career. He was like, “ individual stats.”
I laugh at the “deferring to Stackhouse” notion, as if he was deferring to 5’9 Average Joe at the rec center. Stackhouse was SI player of the year in 1995, an All American, he was a fellow high NBA lottery pick, an NBA all star, a guy who damn near averaged 30 points in a season in the NBA. “You didn’t see Tim Duncan defer to Tony ing Rutland at Wake like Sheed deferred to Stack at UNC.” Lolwut?! Seriously?
At any rate, the rebounding point is fair, however I will say, the rebounding between Sheed and LMA is actually pretty close. Career per minute defensive rebounds is a .1 difference. LMA was a better offensive rebounder, and that’s pretty much the difference. But again, Sheed didn’t care about stats. Never ever did. For whatever reason, people look at his stats and think he was a wasted talent or he lacked drive or was lazy. I won’t say none of that’s true, but most of it is not. Just like he didn’t care about individual stats, he didn’t care much for regular season games, especially deeper into his career. But he absolutely cared about winning. Who gets ejected at the McDonald’s All American game? Sheed did. His techs were BECAUSE he cared, not simply or only because he was a hothead.
Anyway, if you take LMA, you have every right to and I understand the reasoning. But if you do, would you take Mitch Richmond over Manu Ginobili too? Think about it. Because it’s pretty much a similar player comparison.
Lol, I don't think you can compare Manu and Rasheed in this argument in a bubble. The point is Manu took over games regularly and wouldn't hesitate to carry a team on his shoulders. Rasheed liked being the 2nd or 3rd option on the floor hiding in the background and trying to dominate this way. Manu and LMA were willing and performed pretty well being the focal point of the defense. LMA never really had a chance to be that role player Manu and Rasheed were on a championship team because well he didn't have: Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, RIP Hamilton, Prime TD Tony, to play with. I think most people think if a prime LMA were on those teams Rasheed were on, they would've performed just as well or probably better.
I wasn’t comparing Sheed with Manu. I was comparing the difference between Sheed and LMA to the difference between Manu and Mitch Richmond. Regardless, there are similarities between Manu and Sheed as selfless team players, both sacrificing their games for the good of the team.
For whatever reason, you have a warped recollection of LMA from his Portland days, simply because he put up “better” individual stats than Sheed did when he was younger and in Portland as a featured player. Here’s better context. Sheed played seven full seasons at Portland. For a good comparable, I looked at LMA’s first seven seasons in Portland. Fair?
Sheed’s 7 seasons in Portland: averaged 51 wins, made the playoffs all seven seasons, two conference finals
LMA’s first 7 seasons in Portland: averaged 42 wins, made playoffs 3 seasons, missed playoffs the other 4, did not get out of the first round
That context helps quite a bit. The only time LMA got out of the first round in Portland was when Dame emerged as an elite player, after LMA’s first 7 seasons there, and oh btw because Dame was able to be drafted high in the lottery when an LMA led Blazers team missed the playoffs and was in the lottery. The whole LMA was willing to take over and could be the focal point of the offense rewrites history a little, and also ignores and/or forgets 1999-2003 Rasheed Wallace.
LMA's season in 2017-2018 wins for me. Wallace couldn't/wouldn't have done what LA did that season. Dude almost wo 50 games with a bunch a scrubs.
I never implied Stackhouse was a scrub by Sheed deferring to him but to illustrate how Sheed did not want to be the man. As a freshman Stackhouse had more hype coming in but as a sop re Sheed-Stack were on the same level talent wise. I watched a ton of UNC games during Sheed-Stacks sophmore year. I saw a lot of games where Sheed didn't step up when it mattered and was looking for Stackhouse to carry him.
Agreed 2017-2019 wins it for me. Both years the Spurs only went to the playoffs because LMA was playing on god mode.
The blazers in '99 and '00 were a stacked team. After '00 the Blazers underachieved big time by never getting out of the first round.
8-15 against the top 6 playoff seeds in the WC that year. And a few of those wins at the very end of the season when some of those teams weren’t playing for anything while the Spurs were fighting for their playoff lives. Credit him for keeping them compe ive. But he helped them to that record primarily by beating teams they should beat. Impressive to a degree. Don’t know if you can argue several other border star type players including Sheed could not have done the same.
Didn’t say you implied Stack was a scrub. The comparison with Duncan is weak because Duncan at Wake didn’t have a teammate anywhere close to the caliber of Stack where it wouldn’t make sense for him defer to. The one year he did with Childress Duncan’s freshman year, it was Childress’ team, not Duncan’s. And Childress wasn’t the caliber of Stack. Duncan in his prime deferring the offense to Tony Parker proves that if Duncan had an elite teammate the caliber of Stack, he may have been willing to defer just as Sheed did.
That’s fine. What did LMA do in Portland that proved he could carry a team further as the focal point? He was missing the playoffs and getting punted out of the first round before Dame held his hand.
Tony ran the offense in Duncan's prime but Duncan was still the number 1 option when it came to scoring points.
Sheed and Manu... Seriously Jamstone?!?
Manu was a passsionate player who would put everything he had (and a little more) out there on the floor to win.
Sheed was a child prone to temper tantrums, who wasn't willing to go 100% every game, or even most games.
LMA is a better floor raiser. Sheed is a better ceiling raiser
Offense already began to transition in their 2007 championship season. By the following year, Duncan’s age-31 season, Parker was taking more FGAs than Duncan but just barely, Manu led the team in scoring in the regular season. Tony led the team in scoring and FGAs in the playoffs. 31 years old still prime imo. From there, obviously, Tony began to take over more, Duncan played fewer minutes as he got older. I don’t know what age range you mark as a players prime, but 30-32 is still prime years to many of the greats.
Duncan's prime ended after the '07 playoffs. He dropped off during the '07-'08 season. So he started deferring to both Parker and Manu right as his prime was over. He never deferred to Parker when he was in his prime.
The comparison is about sacrificing individual stats. I’m not comparing everything about the two players. If I said Zach Randolph is one of the last great low post, back-to-the-basket scorers along with Tim Duncan, I’m not suggesting Randolph was as great as Duncan or that they were the same caliber of player. I’m comparing their low post, back-to-the-basket scoring ability. Comparing that one thing. Not everything between the two. The comparison between Sheed and Manu is about their selfless play, the sacrifice of individual stats for the team. That’s the comparison.
And again, as I already stated, the real comparison I made was about “Sheed to LMA” compared with “Manu to Mitch Richmond.” The comparison was the difference of those two pairings, not really specifically Sheed and Manu.
Don’t agree. Great players don’t drop off at age 31, unless it’s injury related. Duncan played 78 games in 07-08, played the same amount of minutes as the prior season, even took more FGAs. He just shared the shine more with Tony (and Manu). I don’t buy that a 31 year old Duncan averaging 19/11 is no longer in his prime. It was perhaps still pretty even that season, but the transition had at least begun to a more Tony-focal offense.
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