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  1. #1
    Believe. Mr.Stern's Avatar
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    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...tm?csp=usat.me

    Tennessee politician's remarks on Islam raise uproar

    NASHVILLE — Comments by Tennessee Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey suggesting that Islam might be a cult and that Muslims might not qualify for cons utionally guaranteed religious freedoms drew criticism from Islamic groups Tuesday and an eruption of national media attention.
    Ramsey, a Republican candidate for governor, said at a mid-July campaign event in Chattanooga that he is "all about freedom of religion," which is guaranteed by the First Amendment.

    FAITH & REASON: Church to burn Quran
    "But you cross the line when they start trying to bring Sharia law into the United States," he said. "Now you could even argue whether being a Muslim is actually a religion, or is it a nationality, a way of life or cult, whatever you want to call it? We do protect our religions, but at the same time, this is something that we are going to have to face."

    There are approximately 1.2 billion Muslims in the world and 7 million in the United States, according to the Council on American-Islamic Relations. Ibrahim Hooper, that organization's national communications director, called Ramsey's comments "part of an unfortunate trend in our society."

    "There's a vocal minority promoting the idea that if you can delegitimize Islam, you can deny American Muslims their religious and cons utional rights," Hooper said Tuesday.

    The flap, which caught the eye of several national blogs and news organizations Tuesday, comes one week before the Republican gubernatorial primary on Aug. 5 during a Tennessee campaign season in which opinions on Islam have at times dominated the debate.

    Opponents of a new mosque planned in Murfreesboro, Tenn., including GOP congressional candidate Lou Ann Zelenik, have said it shouldn't be allowed because they believe Muslims are dangerous. But the land is zoned for religious use, and the building plan is moving forward. Public opposition forced the withdrawal of a rezoning plan for a mosque proposed in Brentwood, however, and an Antioch mosque proposal is facing resistance.

    Ramsey's Republican rivals, Knoxville Mayor Bill Haslam and U.S. Rep. Zach Wamp, tried to steer clear of the controversy Tuesday.

    "The mayor's faith is very important to him, and he respects the right of others to practice their faith, so long as they are respectful of the communities in which they live and the laws of the land," Haslam campaign spokesman Dave Smith said in an e-mail.

    Wamp was "busy with voting" in Washington and unavailable to comment, campaign spokesman Sam Edelen said.

    Ramsey clarifies stance@

    In a phone interview, Ramsey tried to clarify his stance, saying he has "no problem — and I don't think anyone in this country has a problem — with peace-loving, freedom-loving Muslims that move to this country and assimilate into our society."

    "But it's undeniable that there's a portion of Islam that's been co-opted by a radical faction that promotes violence not only against Americans but around the world," he said. "That's what I'm talking about."

    But Mwafaq Mohammed, president of the Salahadeen Center of Nashville, said Ramsey is representative of "elements within the two (political) parties that are using ... Islamophobia, the fear, for their own advantage."

    "It's election season," Mohammed said. "He doesn't have the facts."

    The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life found about 1% of Tennessee's roughly 6.3 million residents, or some 63,000, are Muslim. Mohammed, a Kurd from northern Iraq, said the largest single demographic group among American Muslims, accounting for about one in three, is African-Americans, not immigrants.

    Hooper said Muslims "are like every other American." "They want to raise their kids, send them to school, have a job, live a positive life in society," Hooper said. "Mainstream religious and political leaders need to come out and say, 'Look, Islam is the faith of one-fifth of the world's population. Not a cult; it's a real religion. And American Muslims have the same religious and cons utional rights as other citizens,' " Hooper said.

  2. #2
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...tm?csp=usat.me

    Tennessee politician's remarks on Islam raise uproar

    NASHVILLE — Comments by Tennessee Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey suggesting that Islam might be a cult and that Muslims might not qualify for cons utionally guaranteed religious freedoms drew criticism from Islamic groups Tuesday and an eruption of national media attention.
    Ramsey, a Republican candidate for governor, said at a mid-July campaign event in Chattanooga that he is "all about freedom of religion," which is guaranteed by the First Amendment.

    FAITH & REASON: Church to burn Quran
    "But you cross the line when they start trying to bring Sharia law into the United States," he said. "Now you could even argue whether being a Muslim is actually a religion, or is it a nationality, a way of life or cult, whatever you want to call it? We do protect our religions, but at the same time, this is something that we are going to have to face."

    There are approximately 1.2 billion Muslims in the world and 7 million in the United States, according to the Council on American-Islamic Relations. Ibrahim Hooper, that organization's national communications director, called Ramsey's comments "part of an unfortunate trend in our society."

    "There's a vocal minority promoting the idea that if you can delegitimize Islam, you can deny American Muslims their religious and cons utional rights," Hooper said Tuesday.

    The flap, which caught the eye of several national blogs and news organizations Tuesday, comes one week before the Republican gubernatorial primary on Aug. 5 during a Tennessee campaign season in which opinions on Islam have at times dominated the debate.

    Opponents of a new mosque planned in Murfreesboro, Tenn., including GOP congressional candidate Lou Ann Zelenik, have said it shouldn't be allowed because they believe Muslims are dangerous. But the land is zoned for religious use, and the building plan is moving forward. Public opposition forced the withdrawal of a rezoning plan for a mosque proposed in Brentwood, however, and an Antioch mosque proposal is facing resistance.

    Ramsey's Republican rivals, Knoxville Mayor Bill Haslam and U.S. Rep. Zach Wamp, tried to steer clear of the controversy Tuesday.

    "The mayor's faith is very important to him, and he respects the right of others to practice their faith, so long as they are respectful of the communities in which they live and the laws of the land," Haslam campaign spokesman Dave Smith said in an e-mail.

    Wamp was "busy with voting" in Washington and unavailable to comment, campaign spokesman Sam Edelen said.

    Ramsey clarifies stance@

    In a phone interview, Ramsey tried to clarify his stance, saying he has "no problem — and I don't think anyone in this country has a problem — with peace-loving, freedom-loving Muslims that move to this country and assimilate into our society."

    "But it's undeniable that there's a portion of Islam that's been co-opted by a radical faction that promotes violence not only against Americans but around the world," he said. "That's what I'm talking about."

    But Mwafaq Mohammed, president of the Salahadeen Center of Nashville, said Ramsey is representative of "elements within the two (political) parties that are using ... Islamophobia, the fear, for their own advantage."

    "It's election season," Mohammed said. "He doesn't have the facts."

    The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life found about 1% of Tennessee's roughly 6.3 million residents, or some 63,000, are Muslim. Mohammed, a Kurd from northern Iraq, said the largest single demographic group among American Muslims, accounting for about one in three, is African-Americans, not immigrants.

    Hooper said Muslims "are like every other American." "They want to raise their kids, send them to school, have a job, live a positive life in society," Hooper said. "Mainstream religious and political leaders need to come out and say, 'Look, Islam is the faith of one-fifth of the world's population. Not a cult; it's a real religion. And American Muslims have the same religious and cons utional rights as other citizens,' " Hooper said.


    you guys never surprise me anymore.... This guy must be a tea pottier..

  3. #3
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    all religions are cults.....to some extent.

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    But if non-Christians called all of Christianity a "cult", illegitimate religion, because of fringe freaks like LDS/Mormon weirdos, or Phelps weirdos, or Creationists, or Bible iteralists, or End Timers, the Christians would be in an "uproar". Hypocrites.

  5. #5
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    you guys never surprise me anymore.... This guy must be a tea pottier..
    So there isn't a radical, almost cult like minority of Islam that promotes Sharia law and death to all non-believers?

    Radical Islam is just an invention of the tea party?

    Your constant vomit of ignorance, although amusing at times is getting rather tedious.

  6. #6
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    all religions are cults.....to some extent.
    I was going to say the same thing..only reversed. All cults are religions to some extent.

  7. #7
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    But if non-Christians called all of Christianity a "cult", illegitimate religion, because of fringe freaks like LDS/Mormon weirdos, or Phelps weirdos, or Creationists, or Bible iteralists, or End Timers, the Christians would be in an "uproar". Hypocrites.
    Who says Christians are not in a uproar over this? I rather suspect some are. It's not likely you'd notice anyway. Hypocrite much? .075 seconds with Google.

    http://chuckcurrie.blogs.com/chuck_c...s ution.html

    Tennessee Lt. Governor: Islam A Cult; Might Not Be Protected Under Cons ution
    How do we combat such bigotry?

    Tennessee Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey, currently running third in the state's Republican gubernatorial primary race, says he's not sure if Cons utional guarantees of freedom of religion apply to the followers of the world's second-largest faith, Islam.

    At a recent event in Hamilton County, Ramsey was asked by a man in the audience about the "threat that's invading our country from the Muslims." Ramsey proclaimed his support for the Cons ution and the whole "Congress shall make no law" thing when it comes to religion. But he also said that Islam, arguably, is less a faith than it is a "cult."

    "Now, you could even argue whether being a Muslim is actually a religion, or is it a nationality, way of life, cult whatever you want to call it," Ramsey said. "Now certainly we do protect our religions, but at the same time this is something we are going to have to face."


    Ramsey went on to say:

    "It's time for American Muslims who love this country to publicly renounce violent jihadism...
    Can this guy not read? The reality is that American Muslims have consistently condemned violent extremism within Islam.
    Full story.

    Republican leaders in Tennessee are using the proposed construction of a Muslim community center as a campaign issue.

    Republican congressional candidate Lou Ann Zelenik has said:
    "Until the American Muslim community find it in their hearts to separate themselves from their evil, radical counterparts, to condemn those who want to destroy our civilization and will fight against them, we are not obligated to open our society to any of them."
    President George W. Bush visited the Islamic Center of Washington just a week after September 11th and told those gathered:
    Thank you all very much for your hospitality. We've just had a -- wide-ranging discussions on the matter at hand. Like the good folks standing with me, the American people were appalled and outraged at last Tuesday's attacks. And so were Muslims all across the world. Both Americans and Muslim friends and citizens, tax-paying citizens, and Muslims in nations were just appalled and could not believe what we saw on our TV screens.
    These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.
    The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.
    The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war.
    When we think of Islam we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace. And that's made brothers and sisters out of every race -- out of every race.
    America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country. Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads. And they need to be treated with respect. In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect.
    Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes. Moms who wear cover must be not intimidated in America. That's not the America I know. That's not the America I value.
    There was a lot that I didn't like about George W. Bush's presidency but he correctly went out of his way to show respect for American Muslims.

    Bigotry - against people people of color, against gays and lesbians, against women, against non-Christians - has been used to divide the American people for too long. What is happening in Tennessee is an example of the worst kind of bigotry and as a Christian I denounce it and pray that those engaging in such behavior repent of their sins and seek ways this campaign season to bring reconciliation to the people of our nation. Religious bigotry is, frankly, un-American.

  8. #8
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    So there isn't a radical, almost cult like minority of Islam that promotes Sharia law and death to all non-believers?

    Radical Islam is just an invention of the tea party?

    Your constant vomit of ignorance, although amusing at times is getting rather tedious.
    Comments by Tennessee Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey suggesting that Islam might be a cult and that Muslims might not qualify for cons utionally guaranteed religious freedoms drew criticism from Islamic groups Tuesday and an eruption of national media attention.

    I'd ignore the second part of the sentence also. I've come to expect a comlete lack of intellectual honesty from you and this is yet another example of it...

    he's an idiot which I guess proves that birds of a feather flock together..

  9. #9
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I'd ignore the second part of the sentence also. I've come to expect a comlete lack of intellectual honesty from you and this is yet another example of it...

    he's an idiot which I guess proves that birds of a feather flock together..
    Speaking of leaving part out...

    did you read this part?

    and I don't think anyone in this country has a problem — with peace-loving, freedom-loving Muslims that move to this country and assimilate into our society."

    "But it's undeniable that there's a portion of Islam that's been co-opted by a radical faction that promotes violence not only against Americans but around the world," he said. "That's what I'm talking about."

  10. #10
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Do you realize that some mosques in the United States run by radical fundamentalists (and protected under US religious freedom laws) have harbored and directed domestic terrorists?

  11. #11
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Do you realize that some mosques in the United States run by radical fundamentalists (and protected under US religious freedom laws) have harbored and directed domestic terrorists?
    Not unlike Phelps and his ilk. I hate it. I also acknowledge that is an artifact of freedom.

  12. #12
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    BTW, let me make it perfectly clear that I do not advocate denying followers of Islam freedom of religion the the United States.

  13. #13
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Speaking of leaving part out...

    did you read this part?
    so you are ok with denying people the right to practice their religion

    USA USA USA



    There is a part of the Islamic faith who want to kill us? Since when?I had no idea..

  14. #14
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    BTW, let me make it perfectly clear that I do not advocate denying followers of Islam freedom of religion the the United States.
    so then you also have the same problem that I did with his statement..glad you finally came around..

  15. #15
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    so then you also have the same problem that I did with his statement..glad you finally came around..
    I think he clarified his position and it's a non-issue.

  16. #16
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    I think he clarified his position and it's a non-issue.
    So now as long as a politician clarifies misstatement then it becomes a moot issue...

  17. #17
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    So now as long as a politician clarifies misstatement then it becomes a moot issue...
    Obama seems to think so. "Beer summit" ring a bell?

    This guy is some nobody running third in a state race. You are trying to paint an entire party/group with a pretty damn narrow brush.

  18. #18
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    I don't really have a problem with his comments except for this one, which is where he insults all Muslims...

    "Now you could even argue whether being a Muslim is actually a religion, or is it a nationality, a way of life or cult, whatever you want to call it? We do protect our religions, but at the same time, this is something that we are going to have to face."
    It's perfectly reasonable to criticize him based on this sentence alone until he retracts it.

  19. #19
    Veteran in2deep's Avatar
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    what a stupid

  20. #20
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    Tennessee? This guy is sending out Christian supremacy dog whistles to his "Christian" red-state hicks and hillbillies.
    Last edited by boutons_deux; 07-29-2010 at 01:22 PM.

  21. #21
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I think he clarified his position and it's a non-issue.
    I don't think he clarified anything at all. Sure he ran away from the most controversial things he said, but why did he say them in the first place if he didn't believe them?

  22. #22
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I don't think he clarified anything at all. Sure he ran away from the most controversial things he said, but why did he say them in the first place if he didn't believe them?
    I believe the new proper progressive terminology for what happened is that it was a "teachable moment".

  23. #23
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    Like Rand Paul's "teachable moment" of being taught not to speak his racist mind about approving businesses discriminating now that he's on the national stage.

  24. #24
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Like Rand Paul's "teachable moment" of being taught not to speak his racist mind about approving businesses discriminating now that he's on the national stage.
    I believe your deity Obama coined that phrase originally.
    Last edited by CosmicCowboy; 07-29-2010 at 02:24 PM.

  25. #25
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    The biggest problem I have is the whole "taking away their religious freedoms" statement. Very unconservative.

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