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He can still surpass Timmy. Every all-time great has had some tough playoff losses tbh.
Yes. He is 29 and still has time to add to his foundation
No, and this Game 7 home loss was a huge stepback
Yes, he will team up with Wemby in a few years and rock Championships
No. Denver is going to implode and he is stuck there.
Yes the same squad will grow and win a few more Chips
No. Joker will never Chip again.
Or did this game 7 just take a huge step backwards in terms of legacy for Joker?
Previously on Spurstalk.com, we discussed whether or not Greek Freak had reached "Early" Tim Dunkar level influence after his 2021 Championship and legit MVP level performance. Wow, that turned out to be a solid No since 2021. Voting at the time 2022 had a little over half thinking Greek had not even reached Early Duncan level, but about half thought he did. The poll was just before the 2022 Playoffs.
Has Greek Freak approached early Timmy Duncan level? (spurstalk.com)
Joker. I was playing poker so had a distracted view of the game, but from what i saw Joker looked gassed in the 2nd half but still put up a couple huge treys in the stretch run for a comeback attempt. Oof 0-8 on the rest of Jokers treys. I look fwd to reading all your takes. Rob has already said it looked like the Nuggets "quit", as far back as the 2nd qtr.
Not gonna lie, i also got a vibe like they were quitting on purpose. WTH was that?
As to being gassed, also what is up with that? Game is in Denver, you know the Mile High city where host purportedly have a huge advantage because they are used to breathing Mile High air? Hmmn have NBA opponents leveled the field on the oxygen intake?
Back to Joker, in Game 7
34/19/7 with a team high 47 minutes.
Pretty damn good. We saw Timmy Dunker get F'd out of game and Finals winning performances by a bird brained coach (2006 and 2013) and Ginobilis hero ball 06 and then temp Alzheimer's '13. Which makes Duncans 5 legit Championships all the more impressive imo.
So maybe Joker did all he could to win 2024s game 7? Surrounding cast and coach were inadequate?
Where does Joker go from here?
Doe he get a better cast and win more Chips?
Or was that it? 1 and done for Jokers career. Okay mmmaybe 2 but no way he's getting 5 and matching Player of His Generation Timmy Duncan. Tall order, indeed.
He can still surpass Timmy. Every all-time great has had some tough playoff losses tbh.
sure, if he gets into an all defensive team the next 10 seasons in a row.... At least Tim had to face great players at his position. Jokic faces like 2 per season.
Darn, I was going to watch the game, but the thread le gave me a spoiler. Oh well. Tough loss for Jokic. I thought for sure they'd win game 7 at home. I didn't expect him to be bounced this early. He's a great player, but it kind of bothers me that guys like Giannis, and now the Joker get elevated above TD and TD is never even mentioned.
Jokic is darn good (great), but as I said with Giannis, he has a long, long way to go, but also, the comparison with Joker can't forget the defensive side of the ball. TD was GREAT on both ends of the court, Nikola, not so much.
I wonder if TD watched the game, as I remember in an interview (not sure if it was the RJ one or a different one?) where he said that Jokic was his favourite player to watch. At least he has TD's backing.
I was actually thinking of 2006 upon reading your thread le as I was saying that Tim's never lost a game 7 at home, but then remembered 2006. He did all he could that game. Manu should not have fouled. I didn't watch this game, but looking at the stats you put up, did Joker do all he could?
His game and stats have already well exceed Timmy tbh.
If he has 4 rings as well then Timmy will be surely ranked below him.
Can You Imagine: jokic didnt win PO series with +50 wins team. Never.
blowing a 20pt lead in a elimination game, thats just lame...just lame as hero ball antics that costs spurs rings also
What do you mean by this? Are you talking about one of the years the Spurs lost with a 50+ win team in the first round?
Who are you referring to here? Were the Nuggets up 20pts in last night's game?
What are the hero ball antics you're referring to that cost Spurs rings? Are you talking about TP, Manu or someone else?
Yeah, that's all great IF he get to at least 4 rings. Tim also played in a different system. Even if Joker has better stats on offense, why are people forgetting TD was also a DPOY level player for most of his career. He anchored some of the greatest defenses ever. Jokic will never get to that level defensively. Can him being better on offense wipe out how much better Tim was on defense? TD anchored both the offense and defense. That's pretty freaking great. I just don't get why Tim is not mentioned much (he was never boring for me to watch ever). It sucks not ever hearing him mentioned with all those greats that weren't as good as him, but they get brought up all the time in conversation.
He's 29 and Duncan had 3 les when he was 29. It will definitely be hard for him to catch Duncan. He needed to win this year to have a shot at it. I would also say defensively he's nowhere near Duncan. Prime Duncan would have been able to easily shut down KAT, and Naz Reid defensively. I say this as someone who wanted to see him win last night.
He's outdone Timmy on MVPs, but he'll never catch him in rings. That said, I think this is apples to oranges, considering their respective draft positions. Jokic even pulling even an MVP out, much less being The Guy on a le team, has to be winning-the-powerball odds.
One thing I do think is similar is that Jokic isn't going to appreciably drop off into his mid 30s, much like Timmy (always barring injuries). That will leave Denver's window open for a while -- hoping Wemby and Jokic have at least one duel for the ages while Joker's in his prime.
this loss and the serie are not on Jokic, not sure what more you can ask from him. It changes absolutely nothing on Jokic actual and future legacy... he is not going to win every year and he is still young.
Comparaisons with Tim are way too soon anyway
I don't think he will ever win another MVP again. The media has pretty much made sure this will be his last MVP after what happened yesterday. He edges out Tim with the league MVP 3-2, but Tim will most likely still edge him out in rings and Finals MVPS. I don't think if things hold up, he will have enough to pass Tim resume wise.
Long term it could affect his legacy in the sense of being short of rings. Every year that you have opportunity to win a le and you don't is a lost year. For example, in Tim's career I would say '04, '06, '13 were all lost years. If he somehow got a le in any of those years, the way people look at him today would be different since he would have 6 rings or more. Legacy wise that would have been a huge boost for him.
Comparaisons with Tim are way too soon anyway
Dumb, different era
I think you're right, but it is two different types of resume. One was a 2nd rounder who is one of the biggest stat stuffers there ever was, while the other was a #1 choice who was expected to win rings from the beginning. Every ring Jokic secures is worth about 1.25 or 1.5 of Timmy's, I'd say, trying very hard to be objective. Subjectively, though, I don't think the two are even close. Timmy is certainly the more competent defender, and definitely more athletic 2001 and back. In today's NBA, I think he'd be reasonably close stat stuffing and I think he'd also have extended his range to the 3pt line. It's an era thing, now, which makes me feel old.
I agree with the "could" but Tim won his last ring at 38 y/o and was still the best player of the run. Jokic game is aging well, he still has a lot of years in front of him, so it is clearly too soon to conclude. One thing is for sure is that at 29 Tim already had 3 rings.
Also I don't know if Jokic will still play at 38 for instance and I don't think he cares a lot about legacy anyway
5 rings is an impossible as for any al-time great. There's only been 5 all-time players to do it since the merger. Kareem, Magic, Jordan, Kobe, and Tim. That's the list. So no Jokic will not catch him in les. However, I believe that he will be considered the greatest offensive bigman to ever play the game. No other center come close to his offensive talent
Spurs notes. Get a competent backup for Wemby.
Joker looked gassed.
lol, had to check it out. and yea he has no wins vs a 50W team in the playoffs... pretty pathetic.
This is so stupid, Duncan had a very tough era, Joker on the other hand has a weak pussy ass era and cant even make it to the Finals.
Now if Boston cant win it all this year, they need to kill themselves or play chess because they are a failure.
I have to agree as good as the Wolves are Anthony Edwards is not on the level of Kobe, Shaq, Dirk who were constant foils Duncan had to deal with in the West.
the era is guard heavy... The only other great center in the league is Embiid and those two will never face eachother in the finals... Tim actually had to face and guard other great players at his position.
There has never been a point in time where Jokic has been in the same galaxy as Timmy.
Timmy will end up having more all nba 1st team selections than Jokic will have all nba selections period
I don't really want to talk any crap about Jokic as he's a great player, but I wonder how he would have went against the 2005 Detroit Pistons frontline that Tim had to take on that series with two injured ankles by the time the time the finals started. I still think Game 7 was an amazing show of leadership and bringing/willing his home against the frontline in the second half of that game getting their bigs in foul trouble (Manu was great too that series, but it was dual finals MVP at best IMO. He wasn't sole MVP over TD). That Pistons frontline was one of the best (apart from the Spurs themselves, but the Spurs couldn't play themselves in the finals), and Tim really willed us to that win. I don't know the state of his ankles by the end of the playoffs, but going into them, his missed the end of the regular season and I was very worried going into the playoffs (I thought he might not even play). He then injured his good ankle against Seattle towards the end of game 6 in Seattle where the crowd cheered, and I think he hit the game winner/go ahead basket to win that games/series. Robert Horry did bail out Tim a little bit in game 5, but I wonder what state TD's ankles were going into that series (I don't know if the one he injured before the playoffs had healed fully by that point). I don't think he was fully healthy at all.
I remember TD really took it to them in the first regular season meeting between the two teams when he was healthier/not carrying any injuries. I can't remember who it was on, but I think he dunked it on Ben Wallace and then after the game said something like, if we have to go through them to win the Championship, then that's who we're going to go through. I just haven't forgotten how hard he battled it out. He still took us home in a pressure packed game 7 against a Detroit team that would have been full of confidence after winning game 6 on the Spurs' home floor. Basically, injured or not, TD really tried to step up all the time, and most of the time he did. He also had the plantar fasciitis in the 2006 season and was IMO the best player in those playoffs despite losing to Dallas in a BS series filled with BS calls. TD was great both of those seasons, but wasn't fully healthy for large parts of both seasons.
Last edited by Ice009; 1 Week Ago at 03:07 PM.
Denver’s roster is pretty stuck. I don’t see how they improve much. The wolves could be even better next year. So I think we saw the nuggets at their peak last year.
Jokic will still be great, but he’ll never be on Duncan’s level. That’s nothing to be ashamed of. There are only 10 or so players in NBA history on Duncan’s level.
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