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Great post. Keep 'em coming!
o everyone. As the user name suggests, I'm a long-time reader, very limited poster. I spend far too much time here without posting, and that would probably double if I were to post on a regular basis. However, I live in Salt Lake City and am attending the Rocky Mountain Revue, so I figured I'd give you guys my thoughts from seeing these guys live. I haven't had a chance to read what's been said in the past couple days, so I apologize if a lot of this is reiterated or if the board has someone else viewing the games live. I also apologize if this OP is too long for some people; I'll try to bold each section to help you skim.
Spurs players:
George Hill: The thing that impressed me the most about Hill was how quick his feet are, on both sides of the court. On offense, this helps him get past guys on the perimeter. On defense, this helps him stay in front of the guy he is guarding, which he does very well. In the first game against the Jazz, Hill did a great job of staying in front of Tyrone Brazelton, who is a very fast guard. When Brian Morrison came in to replace Hill, Brazelton blew past him a couple times.
While Hill isn't a pure point guard, I think he'll be capable of playing PG for the Spurs system. He doesn't turn the ball over very often, and he's very good at penetrating and kicking. Accordingly, he does a good job of passing through traffic, both to the perimeter and to big men who are open because they double the penetrator. Hill is also very unselfish, sometimes to a fault. The offense the summer league team seems to be running mostly involves Hill bringing the ball up the court and passing to the wing to initiate a semi-motion offense. Since this is mostly what Jacque Vaughn does half the time (get out of the way and let the scorers score), I can definitely see Hill stepping in immediately. The only problem with this offensive setup is that it hasn't allowed me to see how well Hill passes into the post (e.g. - down to Mahinmi), as he hasn't done it very often.
What Hill needs to work on the most is making guys at the next level respect his penetration by learning how to finish at the rim and/or learning a pull-up jumper. Once he does that, his penetrate and kick will be more effective. Other than this, the primary negatives I saw with Hill are things that I view as rookie mistakes, such as getting himself caught off of his feet or picking up his dribble too soon.
With his very solid defense and good passing and ballhandling abilities, I think Hill will be playing 15 minutes a game by January at the latest.
Ian Mahinmi: Ian has put on a few pounds since the last time I saw him, and he looks good. That being said, he's still skinny for his frame and could stand to put on another 10-15 pounds. Mahinmi definitely shows signs of being very good. However, his biggest fault is that he's not nearly aggressive enough on either side of the court. On defense he really needs to go after rebounds a bit more; not that he's being outrebounded by guys near him, just that he kind of stays in one spot and doesn't move around while anticipating where the ball will go. On offense, he needs to be a little more demanding of the ball, and needs to be a little more physical in his moves to the basket.
All of this being said, I saw a lot of positives in Mahinmi's game. His jump shot and free throw shot look very smooth and comfortable. He has a few different post moves, the most impressive of which came along the baseline, which I kind of get the feeling he is more comfortable with, as opposed to Tim Duncan's typical post-up position. He seems pretty solid on defense, though his best shot-blocking seems to come on help defense. Now that he's not having foul trouble, I think he needs to throw a little more aggressiveness back into his shot block attempts. Yes, he had 7 fouls in the game today (Saturday), but most of those were very ticky-tack fouls called by poor quality summer league refs. In the NBA he would have probably had 3, with 4 at the very most.
Mahinmi is getting frequent breaks in summer league, but I don't think this is because he gets tired easily; I think it's because the coaches are trying to tell him anything and everything that will help him, and they want to get to him while the particular play is still fresh in his mind. All said, I think Mahinmi can be a contributor this year, but not right away. He still needs a lot of grooming, but he also needs some solid NBA experience. I think they will try to throw him into the fire before the stretch run, assuming they don't send him back into the D-League. I'd personally be happy if he's getting into the rotation at all come March through June.
James Gist: I've only seen James play one game since he didn't play Saturday, but from what I saw, he's a lot of fun to watch. I can't remember the last time the Spurs have had such an authoritative rebounder; he pulls down the boards very strongly, even ripping it away from Ian a couple times. His defense is good, but he still got abused once or twice, one of those I believe on a baseline move by Britton Johnsen. He's a good finisher at the basket, and looks comfortable and deceptively fast on the court.
Whether the Spurs have told him or whether he's reading Spurstalk, I think James knows that to make it in the NBA, he's going to have to play 3/4 instead of just 4. Even though the coaches put him in the 4 spot in the lineup, he's trying to play more on the perimeter. He does a great job of finding holes in the defense to run through, both with and without the ball. Also, watching him warmup, he did nothing but shoot 3 pointers. Unfortunately, not many were going in, but that might take time. I think with a little development he can definitely contribute as an energy/rebounding guy, but in the short run at least, I think he's a better fit as a small-ball 4 than as a long 3.
Malik Hairston: I know a lot of people on the board have been hard on Malik, and understandably so since he tends to disappear at times, but there are definitely some redeeming qualities to him. He has a very fast first step, which allows him to get into the lane. However, once he gets there, his ballhandling and finishing abilities seem to be suspect. If he's going to be a true slasher in this league, that's the first thing he needs to work on. His passing ability is actually underrated, as I saw him make several great passes earlier today. However, he might not have the greatest decision-making though, as he was very unimpressive when they asked him to inbound the ball. All-in-all, I think Hairston will be a bit of a project, but not one without a lot of potential. I'd be all for signing Hairston, but he'd need to be in Austin all year.
Anthony Tolliver: I add his name to this post because he has been getting a lot hype due to his shooting ability. However, I don't feel like he can do much else other than shoot. He gets beat a lot on defense, and subsequently ends up fouling a lot. I know a lot of people on this board have advocated him over Matt Bonner, but I think Bonner's game is a lot more polished right now. (Disclaimer: I'm a Matt Bonner fan, and think that he can contribute to the Spurs if given the chance.) So, yes Tolliver is a good shooter, but I don't think he does enough on the way of defense or rebounding to justify taking up a roster spot at this point in time.
I have a lot of other thoughts on players on the Jazz and Mavs, as well as on the Iranian National team and a couple other guys on the Spurs. However, this post is already too long, so maybe I'll add these thoughts to a future post on this thread. Thanks for reading, and feel free to ask me any questions.
Great post. Keep 'em coming!
Thanks for the detailed view. Appreciate the time and effort to share with us.
And yes, if you start to post rather than lurk your time here will at least double.
You should post more!
Thanks for the replies. I'll try to get up my thoughts on other teams and players before I go to bed, but that could be as late as 3 a.m. Central. Feel free to shoot me some questions.
Your post was cool
Thanks
Solid third post.
Great job! Nice read
Good post; good read. I agree with most of what you had to say about the players. Except Tolliver; I think with Horry and Barry gone that we could use a spot up shooter like Tolliver since he can shoot the trey so well. He doesn't need to play solid D; Finley, Barry, and Horry's D were pretty non-existent...
Does Gist have a nose for the rebound like a Dennis Rodman, or does he just use his athletic ability and strength to grab everything that comes his way?
I do not think you can tell that yet, Dennis might be the best rebounder ever.
I've only seen him the one game, so obviously my view on him is somewhat limited. However, from what I've seen, he seems to have a pretty good nose for the ball. There were a couple of times he came out of nowhere, and I didn't see him until he had come down with it. That said, comparing him to Dennis Rodman on the boards would be a pretty high compliment, and one that I'm not willing to give the man after seeing him for less than 40 minutes.
Since he rested today, hopefully he'll play the last 2 games in SLC and I'll have a more thorough opinion of him.
Here are some other thoughts that I had from the first two days of the Revue:
Other Spurs players:
Devin Green: This is the kind of guy that you probably need on a summer league team (because someone has to score), but one that is probably detrimental to the development of the other players. He has showed some pretty impressive offense, but has been revealed as lacking in other parts of his game. His passing and ballhandling has seemed fairly poor for a guard, particularly upon penetration. He's somewhat of a ballhog (but not as much as another Green I will mention later), but if he learns to be a team player (or tries to stop impressing people), he could become a decent rotation player for some NBA team at some point (i.e.- 8th man or so).
Brian Morrison: He's a point guard who has a good shot. While it's definitely a step down when he comes in for Hill, he has shown the ability to hit the 18-footer to NBA 3-point shot. He's not horribly quick on defense (I already talked about him getting owned by Brazelton), but he is a vocal leader on the court. I think he might be able to play overseas if he wants to.
Dan Nwaelele: Not much to say about him, but if your last name is Nwaelele, you shouldn't be able to name your kid "Dan."
Dallas Mavericks Summer League Players:
Gerald Green: Everyone who closely follows basketball knows this kid's whirlwind tour of the league. In the summer league, he is quite simply a ballhog. I saw him play two full games, and I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say I saw him pass the ball 3 times. One of these times, the ball bounced off of his (surprised) teammate's hands, and Green picked it up and shot the ball. The rest of the time he gets the ball and shoots it within 5 seconds of receiving it. There was a point where Aaron Miles stopped passing to him because he knew he wouldn't get the ball back.
This being said, Green has some skills. He has a good jumper, and can finish strong at the basket (which should be expected from a former slam dunk champion). There's no doubt that the kid can play basketball. The question is whether he'll ever get his head on straight. It was obvious from a distance that he has some major at ude, and someone who sat closer than me said that he was rolling his eyes the entire game. If Green is ever going to make it in the NBA, he needs to be more mature. This isn't Ron Artest level of immaturity where Green can make it in the league because of pure skill. If Gerald ever wants to make more than $3 mil per year, he's going to have to realize that basketball is a team game.
Aaron Miles: I liked Miles when he played at Kansas, but he was unimpressive in the first game. He was passive on offense, and was outplayed by Acie Law and Speedy Claxton, even though these two didn't have great games. His second game (against the Iranian National team) was much better, and he showed off his 20-foot jump shot. If Miles becomes more consistent, I think he can be a solid backup point guard for a good team (or a starter for a bad team); at worst, he can be a good overseas player and make some money before hanging up the sneakers.
Richie Frahm: When Frahm left Gonzaga, most of what he had going for him relied on his solid jump shot. Now, the same is basically true. At age 30 (31 in a month), he hasn't added much to his game. His shooting alone can get him a roster spot on a team somewhere in the world, but he should save his money while he can.
Atlanta Hawks (my opinions based one one game live, part of a game on local TV):
Speedy Claxton: Not sure why a player of Speedy's experience is playing here, but he didn't exactly tear it up. He seemed to be at the same level of play as the guys around him, which is not something you want to hear about a 7-year veteran. I'll always like Speedy for his time with the Spurs (I was wearing my 2003 Spurs Championship hat while watching him), but he's still a solid backup point guard at best.
Acie Law IV: Was a good player in college, but still needs more polish. With his skill-set, I don't have any doubt that Acie will have a long career, but he needs to take these years to develop; he should have done very well against Miles and Derrick Low, but was decent at best.
Luke Jackson: Liked his game at Oregon, but he still sort of a tweener. At 6-7, he still plays like a big man, even though he has a good outside shot. Hit a few 3 pointers and there's no doubt that when he's hot he can score, but he's more likely to have a highly successful career overseas where being a 6-7 big-man/3-point-threat might be more valued.
Jeremy Richardson: Richardson looked pretty good from what I saw. Showed off the ability to both shoot and slash. I still think Jeremy can catch on and make a 12-man roster somewhere, if he works hard on his game and stays aggressive.
Utah Jazz Summer league players (one game live, one game on TV)
Morris Almond: There is a big difference between what I saw from Almond last year at the Revue and what I saw from him this year; last year, he shot almost entirely 17-footers to 3-pointers. This year, he's really focusing on driving to the basket. This has really helped him to become a more complete player and the best (only) offensive option on this team. If the Jazz let him, he's capable of contributing 10-15 good minutes this year; they are somewhat crowded at 2/3, but minutes may open up if CJ Miles is gone to OKC, as I suspect he will be after that offer sheet.
Kyrylo Fesenko: For a guy who spent a full year in D-League, he looks very tentative. Also, he got into foul trouble very easily. He showed a few good moves in the second game I watched on TV, but all things considered, Spurs fans should be much happier with their 2nd year big-man project (Mahinmi) than the Jazz should be in theirs.
Kosta Koufos: Didn't get a great feel for the first-rounder, as he had even worse foul trouble than Fesenko. He showed a good stroke from outside during warmups. He has a lot of development ahead of him, but based on his skill-set, some Jazz fans were comparing him to Dirk Nowitzki; at best, I think he'll be another Mehmet Okur.
Britton Johnson: The guy does decently at this level, but is a 6-10 SF. No, he is not our answer to the Spurs "long-3" dilemma. He has some offensive skills, but is still pretty raw at age 29. A Utah Utes fan I was with said he has never had the heart to be a good player. He should use the skills he has to make a couple thousand euros for some team.
Kevin Lyde: I remember seeing this guy at Temple, back when he was probably 300 pounds. RMR roster has him listed at 260, and I'd probably believe 270, as he has lost some weight. He also has some limited skills at the post. Will never be a consistent starting big man in the NBA, as he has used his weight to muscle guys in high school and college, but his style will always appeal to someone, and I'd be surprised to see him out of the game completely in the next 3 years.
As a side note, the Jazz don't just like foreigners (Yaroslav Korelev (Russia) and Kyrylo Fesenko (Ukraine) ), they also like guys who kind of sound like foreigners but are really Americans (Kosta Koufos (Ohio State), Haminn Quaintance (Kent State), Mike Efevberha (Cal State Northridge) ).
Iranian National Team
It was really fun to see these guys play. I was prepared to cheer for them (because I didn't think anyone else in the arena would), but they came with 50-100 vocal supporters, who waved flags, banged drums, chanted chants, and tambourined tambourines. I was worried that, with the state of Utah being what it is, this team would get a smattering of boos upon introduction; however, the crowd was very respectful and supportive, and seemed to love the diplomacy via basketball idea. I'm not going to make this a political thread, and I know there are mixed ideas about Iran and its people, but I personally had no problem with this set of men trying to put a ball through a hoop. They weren't good enough to beat the Mavs summer league team, which doesn't bode well for their chances in the Olympics, but they showed some very solid skill at times. Their best player seemed to be their center, #15 Hamed Ehadadi. No heights, weights, or birthdates were listed for the team, but I'd say Ehadadi was a legitimate 7-footer. It's a shame that Iran and the US are in different groups in the Olympics and aren't likely to play each other; I'd be interested to see how the US best defensive big man (Boozer) would respond to Ehadadi's height advantage.
That's all for now. Don't have any thoughts on the "D-League Ambassadors," no one really impressed me. Hopefully I'll have further opinions on the Spurs, as well as the Nets and Warriors, after Monday and/or Tuesday. As always, questions are welcomed.
Last edited by lurker23; 07-20-2008 at 03:10 AM.
Nice job
Did you by chance get a close look at what exactly Bud said to Mahinmi during this last Spurs game? Bud was animated on the sidelines with him. I'm assuming it was mostly about not fouling and instead playing solid defense. I liked that Bud jumped on him because Mahinmi was going through the motions.
Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to see/hear what Bud had to say to Mahinmi during this game. I was on one side of the court while the Spurs bench was on the other during this second game. As I said before, the coaching staff seems to have taken a strong stance on Ian's development, even to the point of calling timeouts to say something important to him.Nice job
Did you by chance get a close look at what exactly Bud said to Mahinmi during this last Spurs game? Bud was animated on the sidelines with him. I'm assuming it was mostly about not fouling and instead playing solid defense. I liked that Bud jumped on him because Mahinmi was going through the motions.
There's no doubt that Ian is going through the motions. If I didn't believe this, I'd be really worried about his improvement up to today. Like most players that go through the Spurs system, his defense is solid enough to play in the NBA, much like Elson, Rasho, and Rose. The question is if he can translate his natural offensive skills into something that can produce 10 points per game against the highest talent.
I mean does he read the ball off the rim LIKE Rodman did.That said, comparing him to Dennis Rodman on the boards would be a pretty high compliment, and one that I'm not willing to give the man after seeing him for less than 40 minutes.
Ive read that he likes to come in from the outside and grab a rebound as opposed to blocking someone out and getting position. Not sure if you would get away with this as much in the league. You tend to see a lot more tip dunks in college than in the NBA.
I'd say he is more of a "getting in the right position" rebounder than a "I boxed you out and out-muscled you for the board" rebounder. That said, I have to clarify that most of his rebounds come 5 feet away from the basket, and not at the basket as a "tip dunk" offensive rebounder. He's more likely to get a tough defensive board and start a break, or get a long offensive board and reset the offensive play, than he is to score two points within 3 seconds of getting an offensive board.
Cheers.
I look forward to further reports.
OP, excellent posts, thanks for the detail.
Welcome to the board (participation-wise)!
Great posts mate
I'm not watching the games as I can't so things like this and timvp's game threads really help. You definitly have a knack for talking about players and the strengths and weaknesses of there games. Very good info for people like me, who as I said, are unable to watch.
One thing I'm going to question you on, even though it has nothing to do with Summer League, and just because I am bored, is this:
I can't even remember who is on the US squad, but surely they have a better big man defender than Boozer? They are going to be in trouble if this is indeed the case.I'd be interested to see how the US best defensive big man (Boozer) would respond to Ehadadi's height advantage.
Really enjoyed your observations.
Keep 'em coming.
good post btw...ive noticed that good posts attract good readers, and bad posts attract the same ppl. who in here have nothing todo but shoot down what others say...most of them are already ignored....if you cant beat them, then either write a long detailed letter stating as many facts as possible....seems those who are haters dont like reading just commenting...thats why i like this place..........you can have tons and tons of ignores and the amount of weight keeps on coming.....
ing about ing. On every single thread.
And doesn't the underlined statement imply you simply suck as a poster?
wow!
RMR....where Gerald Green self-destructing happens....
nice breakdowns!
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